Who did Kirk inherit from Pike's crew

[MAGolding]

This was Byrne's explanation for how Number One could be the ship's "most experienced officer" and still be only a Lieutenant. I think it's a good one, personally. And he included a scene where a superior officer warned her that she couldn't keep turning down promotions without suffering career consequences. And

Spoiler: CREW ending

she eventually got kicked upstairs, anyway.

Well, technically, he refused both. It's not like they let him stay on the Enterprise and made him a Captain anyway.

Jeffrey Hunter was born 25 November 1926 and turned 38 in the year (1934) when he portrayed Pike in "The Cage". Majel Barret was born 23 February 1932 and turned 32 in the year she played Number One. Normally an officer who is five years and three months older than another would be more experienced, but possibly Number One was commissioned at a younger age and/or spent more years of her career in space, and so had more experience in space than Pike. Or possibly Pike meant Number One was the most experience officer excluding himself.

I see no problem with Pike and Number One still being lieutenants - if that is what their insignia meant - aged in their thirties considering that the alternate Picard was a junior lieutenant twenty years older than them in"Tapestry". Although maybe we should forget about "Tapestry".

The crew in "The Cage" seems very young and inexperienced, even compared to the TOS crew, but no doubt there can be plausible reasons for that, and for having only half the crew that Kirk had.

 

[JonnyQuest037]

Or possibly Pike meant Number One was the most experience officer excluding himself.

That was how I always took it.

 

[Mytran]

It's also possible that the gold bands on the wrist did not indicate rank in the same way that it did in later series

 

[Nerys Myk]

It's also possible that the gold bands on the wrist did not indicate rank in the same way that it did in later series

I created an overly elaborate scheme for the rank structure of the Cage/WNMHGB era one. Leaned more toward WNMHGB, though.

 

[Shawnster]

If Scotty was from Pike's crew, shouldn't or wouldn't he have been more emotionally involved with the events of "The Menagerie?"

 

[J.T.B.]

I created an overly elaborate scheme for the rank structure of the Cage/WNMHGB era one. Leaned more toward WNMHGB, though.

An A for effort, but LCdr Mitchell and Lt Kelso wore the same stripes. Some things can't be un-screwed-up!

 

[Nerys Myk]

An A for effort, but LCdr Mitchell and Lt Kelso wore the same stripes. Some things can't be un-screwed-up!

Sometimes you just have to squint, fudge and pretend the stripes come in two colors.

 

[Tenacity]

It's also possible that the gold bands on the wrist did not indicate rank in the same way that it did in later series

Or didn't indicate rank at all? But something else.

Pike's two stripes could have been for "commanding officer," and not (again) his particular rank.

 

[Nerys Myk]

Or didn't indicate rank at all? But something else.

Pike's two stripes could have been for "commanding officer," and not (again) his particular rank.

Pike, like most of the crew has a single gold stripe. The only other stripe seen is a braided one sported by CPO Garrison.

 

[Mytran]

The First Contact uniforms also featured a single sleeve stripe, FWIW

 

[lordsofelsewhen]

I THINK scotty was there somewhere in the engineering room in the cage.

 

[Nerys Myk]

I THINK scotty was there somewhere in the engineering room in the cage.

I hope they let him out.

 

[Nerys Myk]

Played around with Garison's rank and made up an enlisted rank scheme.

In fleet slang, a crewman earns their "knots" and CPOs are called "waffles"

 

[Timo]

It's also possible that the gold bands on the wrist did not indicate rank in the same way that it did in later series

This would be fine in isolation. It is only in the context of Star Trek today that "later" has also begun to stand for "earlier", making it unattractive to think in terms of changes because those would then be back-and-forth.

We have to believe in two main variants today: the pip version and the braid version. The former adds one symbol (be it pip or whatever) compared to the latter, except for Captain where it adds 1.5 symbols. Which is weird but consistent weird, and holds true across centuries. That is, pips and braids along the pseudohistory appear alternately and recurringly or sometimes even in combination, without any hint of "evolution".

The byzantine symbology of the TOS movies is just an interlude that doesn't step on the toes of the other systems. An alternate use of braid (or pip) would.

Which is part of why I prefer to believe in Lieutenant Pike and Commander Kirk, who just wear what we would expect them to wear, even when (Lieutenant) Commander Mitchell looks like a sloppy dresser...

But mainly I like to believe in the lower ranks because the concept is cool. Especially today, as the ship flown by Pike and Kirk appears to have been a rare midget all along!

(And not even a relic of bygone, smaller days, as we now witness older but bigger ships. Perhaps the Constitution is a "starter kit" or a "primary trainer" for young starship commanders?)

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Laura Cynthia Chambers]

If Scotty was from Pike's crew, shouldn't or wouldn't he have been more emotionally involved with the events of "The Menagerie?"

He may not have been chief when Pike got nabbed. Or he may have done a short stint elsewhere in between service periods on Pike's Enterprise.

 

[Timo]

Or he never liked the man much in the first place.

Or never found out. After all, Pike was big news immediately before the events, but apparently Spock censored those news, never allowing the "subspace buzz" to reach the Enterprise.

It is only when everybody convenes in the cinema to watch that old movie that Scotty joins the action. And at the theater, not even McCoy is allowed to take part in the discussion or show emotion (or even professional care for Pike). Either it is against procedure for anybody but the accused to speak, or then it is against the wishes of the Talosians who control the events.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Poltargyst]

Especially today, as the ship flown by Pike and Kirk appears to have been a rare midget all along!

How do you figure that?

 

[Timo]

Well, while she's the only starship design seen in the 2260s, every other Trek decade features bigger ships, usually markedly bigger. Heck, even Archer's saucer is wider than Kirk's if we believe the (offscreen) size estimates of the latter - so it's difficult to argue Kirk would ride the sharp edge of "building big" for his day when Earth had "this big" down pat a century earlier already.

Apart from that, there's nothing much either way. We know starship skippers are special and Kirk is one of those - but we never ever hear Kirk of TOS would be special among starship skippers, much less because of the technical specs of his ship.

OTOH, the Constitution class is special in at least TOS ("Tomorrow is Yesterday" has Kirk saying it's rare) and DSC (Burnham thinks it's a good step careerwise). But we never really learn what sort of special (insert obligatory Ralph Wiggum imitation here). All we know is that visuals seem to rule out "especially big" and instead suggest "smaller than average".

Timo Saloniemi

 

[MAGolding]

Well, while she's the only starship design seen in the 2260s, every other Trek decade features bigger ships, usually markedly bigger. Heck, even Archer's saucer is wider than Kirk's if we believe the (offscreen) size estimates of the latter - so it's difficult to argue Kirk would ride the sharp edge of "building big" for his day when Earth had "this big" down pat a century earlier already.

Apart from that, there's nothing much either way. We know starship skippers are special and Kirk is one of those - but we never ever hear Kirk of TOS would be special among starship skippers, much less because of the technical specs of his ship.

OTOH, the Constitution class is special in at least TOS ("Tomorrow is Yesterday" has Kirk saying it's rare) and DSC (Burnham thinks it's a good step careerwise). But we never really learn what sort of special (insert obligatory Ralph Wiggum imitation here). All we know is that visuals seem to rule out "especially big" and instead suggest "smaller than average".

Timo Saloniemi

for the sake of the people of the Federation and neighboring areas of space Kirk had better be extremely special, cursed with encountering deadly menaces hundreds or thousands of times more often than the average Starship captain did. Or else the people in that area of space are in big trouble.

That is why I favor thinking of KIrk as being the most special starship captain ever. Not to glorify Kirk, but to avoid having the Star Trek universe be so nightmarishly terrifying that Cthulhu would flee from it in terror!

 

[Shamrock Holmes]

Played around with Garison's rank and made up an enlisted rank scheme. In fleet slang, a crewman earns their "knots" and CPOs are called "waffles"

Not bad.

IMO, Pike having only one stripe was an error, as Kirk wore two stripes on the same uniform and while it's just about possible that either Commanders (two stripes) or Captains (two and a half stripes) and maybe even Commodores (three stripes or bar depending on design) could both command the same vessel, it stretches credibly that five different ranks would be eligible to command the same vessel type.

I prefer a slightly simpler scheme for enlisted personnel. Petty Officers and below wear either no chevron or a silver chevron (as prefered).

"railtracks" (gold shirt)* = "Chief of the Boat"/Bosun, Armory Chief Petty Officer.
"railtracks" (red or blue shirt)* = Chief Petty Officer
three chevrons on shoulder^ = Petty Officer
two chevrons on shoulder^ = Crewman 1st Class or Acting Petty Officer
one chevron on shoulder^ = Crewman (Qualified)
no insignia^ = Recruit

* equivalent of the "black pip" of the 2360s.
^ equivalent to the crewman "single wing" of the ENT era.