Who did Kirk inherit from Pike's crew

[johnnybear]

When did Doohan's hatred of Shatner really start? I mean I've seen fluffs on the set between the two in the sixties and they look okay together? Their acting might imply that they do like each other at this point or it might be that they were just good thesps! I didn't like that thing with Doohan ringing Shatner up in the seventies and getting a How did you get this number line!!! I would have said, ''Hey, Jimmy, how are you doing, long time no see and then I would have asked him how did you get this number!!!
JB

 

[F. King Daniel]

I suspect Trek's on-set animosity was just BS to sell newspapers, autobiographies and more recently, drive clicks to get the actors a little more $$$.

 

[Phaser Two]

When did Doohan's hatred of Shatner really start? I mean I've seen fluffs on the set between the two in the sixties and they look okay together? Their acting might imply that they do like each other at this point or it might be that they were just good thesps! I didn't like that thing with Doohan ringing Shatner up in the seventies and getting a How did you get this number line!!! I would have said, ''Hey, Jimmy, how are you doing, long time no see and then I would have asked him how did you get this number!!!
JB

I don't think anyone really knows, JB. But they were pretty damn good actors to sell a thoroughly believable chemistry between them, even as late as Generations when Doohan supposedly couldn't stand to be in the same room with Shatner. Their scenes together in Generations are fantastic - I know it was originally supposed to be Spock and McCoy, but in a way I'm very glad it turned out the way that it did, both because of the Kirk/Scotty scenes and the "No - you were younger" line from Kirk to Chekov. Just top-flight stuff.

 

[GNDN18]

I saw Doohan at a con in ‘83 and it was clear that he had little love for Shatner even then. Still, there was no evidence of it in the movies.

Well, I have wondered whether Kirk not taking Scotty’s jibe personally in TSFS was maybe just a bit meta.

 

[johnnybear]

I don't think anyone really knows, JB. But they were pretty damn good actors to sell a thoroughly believable chemistry between them, even as late as Generations when Doohan supposedly couldn't stand to be in the same room with Shatner. Their scenes together in Generations are fantastic - I know it was originally supposed to be Spock and McCoy, but in a way I'm very glad it turned out the way that it did, both because of the Kirk/Scotty scenes and the "No - you were younger" line from Kirk to Chekov. Just top-flight stuff.

Thanks, Phase! Maybe it was about near the end of the TV series after years of Shatner's total uninterest in his fellow actors and the stealing of their lines of course!
JB

 

[JonnyQuest037]

And "Wolf In The Fold" basically begins from the premise that Kirk is concerned about his friend Scotty and his solution is basically, "let's go to some intergalactic strip clubs together and get him laid".

And it ends with Kirk, Scotty, and McCoy apparently going to visit the local brothel at Mr. Spock's suggestion.

KIRK: Yes, I can see that. Well Mister Spock, for the next five or six hours, we're going to have the happiest crew in space. Of course, we won't get much work done.
SPOCK: Captain, since you came to Argelius to rest, I suggest you take advantage of the opportunity.
KIRK: That's a splendid idea, Mister Spock. I know a cafe where the women are so...
MCCOY: I know the place, Jim.
SCOTT: Let's go see!

 

[Commishsleer]

I suspect Trek's on-set animosity was just BS to sell newspapers, autobiographies and more recently, drive clicks to get the actors a little more $$$.

Look I believe a lot of it has been exaggerated by Takei and Shatner himself probably indeed to get publicity and more $$$. That's not to say its not based on reality.
I know Shatner has his fans and while I admire his work I don't believe he's that much of a 'nice' guy. But perhaps thats what you've got to be to be a success in show business.
Doohan, Takei et al. are not even accusing Shatner of anything malicious - just of being a big-headed jerk. Which I suppose he was. I wish to believe otherwise.

I don't think anyone really knows, JB. But they were pretty damn good actors to sell a thoroughly believable chemistry between them, even as late as Generations when Doohan supposedly couldn't stand to be in the same room with Shatner. Their scenes together in Generations are fantastic - I know it was originally supposed to be Spock and McCoy, but in a way I'm very glad it turned out the way that it did, both because of the Kirk/Scotty scenes and the "No - you were younger" line from Kirk to Chekov. Just top-flight stuff.

I read somewhere - maybe in Doohan's biography that he was very unhappy with his lines in TFF. I thought Doohan's acting was awful at times in the movie. Maybe subconsciously he just resented being represented as a buffoon in some scenes for cheap laughs.

The regular cast weren't the only ones who had problems with Shatner. I've been to a few conventions and I heard from one guest star as she was inevitably asked the question and she said Shatner was as bad as 'you had heard'. At another convention I heard from two other guest stars who said they had no problems with the Shat though..

 

[Phaser Two]

I've actually never spoken to anyone who had a problem with Shatner, and in the #metoo era, I've been really glad to see that no one has come out with any bad stories about him, despite all of his pretty recent TV work including Boston Legal.

Agreed that Scotty's part in TFF was unfortunate, although I did appreciate that it continued the TOS theme of him being immune to virtually anything adversely affecting the crew and the ship.

 

[Commishsleer]

I've actually never spoken to anyone who had a problem with Shatner, and in the #metoo era, I've been really glad to see that no one has come out with any bad stories about him, despite all of his pretty recent TV work including Boston Legal.

Agreed that Scotty's part in TFF was unfortunate, although I did appreciate that it continued the TOS theme of him being immune to virtually anything adversely affecting the crew and the ship.

I'm not actually sure she was talking harassment. It could have just been obnoxiousness - you know hogging lines, being up himself, thinking himself better than everyone else. I'm not sure either way.

And I think Scotty fared about the same as all the other regulars in regards to characterisation in TFF. It wasn't until he organised the escape that he stopped acting strangely out of character IMO. It was all cringey until then. I've no problems with his acting in any of the other movies aside from his lines in GEN being written for Spock - but he did them to the best of his ability unlike his efforts in TFF.

 

[fireproof78]

When did Doohan's hatred of Shatner really start? I mean I've seen fluffs on the set between the two in the sixties and they look okay together? Their acting might imply that they do like each other at this point or it might be that they were just good thesps! I didn't like that thing with Doohan ringing Shatner up in the seventies and getting a How did you get this number line!!! I would have said, ''Hey, Jimmy, how are you doing, long time no see and then I would have asked him how did you get this number!!!
JB

I'll need to reread Shatner's "Star Trek Memories" because he goes in to some of the more unpleasant aspects of the BTS drama, including Nimoy's conflict with Gene Roddenberry, as well as Shatner's own missteps with cast mates.

When I read it last, I seem to recall that Shatner attempted to interview Doohan for the book, but didn't review a call back.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

If we're talking TFF, I distinctly remember the various cast members who'd had a problem with Shatner as an actor, all had nothing but praise for him as a director.

Meaning: When Shat was unquestionably in charge - as the director of the film - there was none of the baggage associated with being his co-star. Every one of the actors - even Takei and Doohan, who'd often been at loggerheads with him - praised Shat's professionalism as a director when they were working on the film.

 

[Phaser Two]

I'm not actually sure she was talking harassment. It could have just been obnoxiousness - you know hogging lines, being up himself, thinking himself better than everyone else. I'm not sure either way.

And I think Scotty fared about the same as all the other regulars in regards to characterisation in TFF. It wasn't until he organised the escape that he stopped acting strangely out of character IMO. It was all cringey until then. I've no problems with his acting in any of the other movies aside from his lines in GEN being written for Spock - but he did them to the best of his ability unlike his efforts in TFF.

Interestingly, if no one had told me the part in GEN originally belonged to Spock, I'd never have known it. They did a great job writing for Scotty in those scenes. And Doohan was terrific.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

^ It's true. All of Scotty's lines in GEN were supposed to be for Spock, and all of Chekov's lines were originally written for McCoy.

 

[Phaser Two]

The parts were supposed to be played by Spock and McCoy, of course. But they obviously rewrote the dialogue for Scotty and Chekov. And did a good job with it.

 

[JonnyQuest037]

The parts were supposed to be played by Spock and McCoy, of course. But they obviously rewrote the dialogue for Scotty and Chekov. And did a good job with it.

If they'd done a good job with it, it wouldn't have been obvious.

 

[johnnybear]

I'll need to reread Shatner's "Star Trek Memories" because he goes in to some of the more unpleasant aspects of the BTS drama, including Nimoy's conflict with Gene Roddenberry, as well as Shatner's own missteps with cast mates.

When I read it last, I seem to recall that Shatner attempted to interview Doohan for the book, but didn't review a call back.

Maybe Jimmy Doohan didn't want to ask him where did you get my number like Shatner did?
JB

 

[Phaser Two]

If they'd done a good job with it, it wouldn't have been obvious.

Huh? I must not have been clear.

We know that the parts were originally supposed to go to Spock and McCoy. Nimoy didn't want to do it and Dee Kelley sadly couldn't get medical clearance IIRC.

So they brought in Scotty and Chekov instead. I said that they "obviously" rewrote the dialogue because Spock would not have said "Damn fine ship if you ask me," or "I don't know how much longer I can keep her together," or "I always do" as Kirk left the bridge. The changes for Chekov are less obvious but still there; I doubt Kirk would say to McCoy "No - you were younger."

This means that the writers made a conscious effort to revise the dialogue to sound like things Scotty and Chekov would say. And they did a good job with it.

 

[JonnyQuest037]

We know that the parts were originally supposed to go to Spock and McCoy. Nimoy didn't want to do it and Dee Kelley sadly couldn't get medical clearance IIRC.

First I've heard of that about Kelley. I'd always heard that he thought he'd made an appropriate goodbye in STVI and he didn't want to come back for what was basically a cameo.

So they brought in Scotty and Chekov instead. I said that they "obviously" rewrote the dialogue because Spock would not have said "Damn fine ship if you ask me," or "I don't know how much longer I can keep her together," or "I always do" as Kirk left the bridge. The changes for Chekov are less obvious but still there; I doubt Kirk would say to McCoy "No - you were younger."

This means that the writers made a conscious effort to revise the dialogue to sound like things Scotty and Chekov would say. And they did a good job with it.

Well, you obviously liked their scenes a lot more than I did. For me the "But, I have a theory"/"I thought you might" dialogue was obviously a Spock/Kirk exchange that sounds utterly strange when it's Scotty and Kirk. And Chekov's "You and you, you're both nurses" to the reporters was obviously a McCoy line. (And since when does Chekov have any sort of medical background, anyway? Sciences, yes. Navigation, surely. He even had a stint as a security chief. But medicine? No.)

Those lines stood out like sore thumbs and I noticed them on my first viewing of the picture. So, no, while the lines you quoted were more character-appropriate to Scotty and Chekov, they didn't rewrite the dialogue enough. It was obvious that they were Spock and McCoy lines awkwardly shoehorned into Scotty and Chekov's mouths.

And it was utterly depressing to hear 24th century era technobabble coming out of Scotty's mouth. He never talked like that before, why should he start doing it after his retirement?

 

[Phaser Two]

Agreed that it was too bad that the problem had to be solved with a ridiculonic pulse from the deflector dish. Other than that I enjoyed every second of the Enterprise-B scenes.

 

[fireproof78]

Maybe Jimmy Doohan didn't want to ask him where did you get my number like Shatner did?
JB

He asked Nichols to relay a message as well.