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The Measure of a Man - Thoughts
- Thread starter Superbread
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Watching that one episode, it seems like Picard has the grudge not Phillipa. She seems quite pleased to see Picard. He, on the other hand, doesn't seem so pleased to see her. Of course, at the end they seem to be getting along just fine.
She is smart.
I agree, very much with this post. What's more, regarding Riker -- and this is not oft mentioned, in light of how relevant it is to the character and to the show -- he grew up not having any family. He's written as having his mother die when he was only a couple years old and his father (whom we, of course, meet in the series) skipped town on him when Riker was just 15. Data, himself, has a brother, in Lor whereas Will has none, really, unless you want to count his transporter clone. But to Riker, the bridge crew of the Enterprise-D is his family. And he'd go further for them than most would go for their own families. So, when he was called upon to harass Data in court to keep the proceedings legitimate, it was probably meant to be even more painful for him than it might otherwise have appeared. Indeed, when he's brooding in the lounge, finally, and Data finds him, Riker seems to fully expect Data to respond to what he'd done in a very typical fashion, for Humans: with deep resentment. And the payoff at the end is pure gold. It's the kind of thing that TNG does so consistently well, throughout it's 7 year run -- demonstrating what this crew means to eachother. I love that shite, I really do ...
And yes, Bruce Maddox was really painted out to be the baddie, here, in a way that almost bordered on cartoonish. He wants to tinker with Data and that's all. He demonstrates, even, that his methods are quite insufficient to achieve his stated goal to reproduce Datas by the thousands. He couldn't even replicate one. But he's so determined to obtain Data for this purpose that he's abusing the shit out of his position and whatever loopholes he finds in STARFLEET regulations, regardless of what Data might potentially mean, as a lifeform. And after all the courtroom drama is said, done and finished, when Data's finally earned his Right to Choose, the beauty of it, the absolute beauty of it is his response to Maddox. He does not answer all cold and roboty, like a machine. Nor does he respond in a way that is vindictive or spiteful. No. Data actually offers encouragement to his would-be killer, even going so far as to suggest that there's actually hope to be found in Maddox' continued research. In short ... Data rises above. To me, this makes him more Human than had he been all bitter about the experience. He takes the High Road and in doing so, demonstrates his capacity to forgive. Like I say ... I LOVE this kind of shite! He's like this partly because he's just Data, but partly because of the influence of his comrades ... his friends. Friends like Riker. And when the show raps up, Data's nod to exactly that is really good stuff. It's STAR TREK at its best.
@2takesfrakes : I couldn't've said it better ! TMoaM is such an incredible episode not only because of the themes it tackles, but also because of the way it enlightens the characters' relationships and personalities. As Data is threatened, we get to observe his colleagues' reactions and realize how closely knit are the bridge crew members.
I watched the extended version of The Measure of A Man a few weeks ago(the season 2 bluray includes the original version and an extended cut). I was surprised how much the deleted scenes enhanced the quality of the episide. There is a great scene where Maddox crashes Data's party in Ten Forward and he makes some sarcastic suggestion that Data should become his own carnival act and Riker throws him out. There is a nice moment where Riker asks Troi if she feels anything from Data. I also liked the scene where Riker visits Picard fencing to let him know he is going to do his utmost to win.
Wow, really ?? I have the complete BluRAY edition but I don't remember if my edition has those deleted scenes...If not, can they be watched on Internet ?
You can watch both versions in Hd on Disc 2 of the season 2 bluray.
I'll check that tomorrow ! And re-watch the whole episode ^^
EDIT : Oh my god....Got them ! I feel I'm gonna watch all versions in the same day xD
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Sorry to double post, but I rewatched the episode (*excited squeal*) and gave very deep attention to Lovois's conclusion at the end of the hearing...and she's very precise when saying that Commander Data has the right to choose. Not all androids, not any android. Just Data.
So wouldn't that mean the door is left open about other androids' fate ? Doesn't it mean Haftel was legally allowed to take Lal away from her father ? To me, her conclusion leaves too many holes to entirely protect androids' and gynoids' rights. There should be a new legal battle to start.
So wouldn't that mean the door is left open about other androids' fate ? Doesn't it mean Haftel was legally allowed to take Lal away from her father ? To me, her conclusion leaves too many holes to entirely protect androids' and gynoids' rights. There should be a new legal battle to start.
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Every android will have to demonstrate s/he has a "soul" (whatever it is).
ETA: Why she had to talk about "souls"? Why?
Mhh ? Louvois didn't say Data had a soul - she even stated that she wasn't sure herself had one. I think it's her way to say that metaphysics isn't what drove her conclusion, logic did.
I just recently caught this episode on TV , been years since I saw it . I was surprised by how willing Picard is to go along with the transfer initially, there is an early scene where he is talking to Data about the potential gain to Starfleet if Maddox is able to make more Data's , it seems like an odd position for Picard to take when he already knows the risks to Data.
I suppose you could look at that as Picard just helping Data talk through the options and considerations. Picard's finishing speech was a great TNG moment , never get tired of watching that )
I suppose you could look at that as Picard just helping Data talk through the options and considerations. Picard's finishing speech was a great TNG moment , never get tired of watching that )
She didn't have to talk about "souls" AT ALL. No one (Maddox, Picard or Riker) talked about them. Why did she need to mention them???
Its a great speech, especially when he emphasises after stating that Starfleet is about seeking new life 'and there it sits'. I think that is what won the case and hopefully made Maddox feel ashamed of himself.
Have you read the Myriad universe novel where Lal is taken away from Data and does not die in the process?
Oh yes they both were, the story with Lal, Guinan's prediction about 'disposable people' came true.
I not very familiar with the novelverse, I've read a few of the DS9 Re-launch books but that is about it. This sounds like something I would enjoy, are the Myriad universe novels like the Marvel 'What If ' line of comics? I enjoy alternate history fiction so this sounds like it would be right up my alley.
Yes they are, some of them are pretty dark with no reset button.
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