After TLJ, Is "Franchise Fatigue' now Plaguing Star Wars?
- Thread starter Kane_Steel
- Start date
I do think Disney will care because it is the 'fanboys' who are going to be buying the $100 Lego sets and a lot of the other merchandise and ancillary deals. The fanboys, or I would say fanbase, is key to generating excitement for each new Star Wars entry (including repeat viewing, home video buying, internet discussion/promotion), for every book, video game, toy line, and cartoon, so if they do care about selling stuff, as you assert, then the fanboys (fanbase) is key to that.
While I don't think the fanboys alone are sinking Solo, I do think it's remiss to ingore this segment of the fandom. When they were opening their wallets, and keeping their mouths shut or cheering along with the crowd, no one had a real problem with them (I should say us, because while I would not agree with some of the other fan-rebels real world political views, I do share a concern that something is amiss with Star Wars).
You are right that the general public's perspective is key, but I would say that the general public is way more fickle and if the support for Star Wars isn't under girded by the fanbase, along with the media hype, then the general public will just look for entertainment elsewhere. There's the MCU, Jurassic World, Fast & Furious, there's the upcoming Avatar sequels, and who knows what else Hollywood is conjuring up to provide big budget spectacle and thrills. To me, the fanbase is what kept Star Wars going from ROTJ to TPM and to some extent from ROTS to TFA. The fanbase perhaps better than anyone else can articulate what makes Star Wars 'special', why they continue to pour money into it, why they dress up like the characters, why they buy all the merchandise, why they watch the films over and over, etc. It's the fanbase that turned Star Wars from a series of blockbuster films into pop culture mythology. There have been other big franchises, and some with fanbases, and some with pop culture popularity, but none of the level of Star Wars and a lot of that credit goes to the 'fanboys'. Crapping on the fanbase, and constantly referring to them as a 'vocal minority' (when ironically the new Star Wars is supposed to about 'giving voices to minorities') is not the way to go IMO.
Can a fanbase be wrong? Yes. Can a fanbase's size be overestimated? Yes (ex. Firefly/Serenity film). But having a fanbase, a 'vocal minority' has saved projects before, like NBC's "Timeless" and I'm sure there are others, but don't feel like looking on the internet for them. Fanbases can have impacts and can get the suits to alter or reconsider their plans. And not having a committed fanbase certainly isn't helping the DCEU or provided any defense or ideas to keep the Transformers going.
I do wonder if the new Star Wars films have actually created a new fanbase, or large enough one, dedicated to the new films, the new direction, or are the masses just going to these films because they are Star Wars and don't see them as indistinguishable from the others. If that's the case, then the old guard's support is even more critical because if or when the masses grow tired of Star Wars as a brand and there is no strong enough fanbase for the new films, the old fans might have whittled away or been pushed away to save Star Wars by that point.
As a member of the Star Wars "old guard" I can say that Star Wars Fatigue is a joke. Like I'd get tired of going to watch a movie. Really? Nope. It's not Star Wars Fatigue, as the MCU shows, you make a good product, then fans will show up. Star Wars Fatigue? No..no..no Lucas Film. It comes down to the one area you want to ignore...
Content matters. Its that simple.
Content matters. Its that simple.
First, you miss my point. Fans are important, yes. But I still don't buy that a large sect of fandom is against what Disney is doing to Star Wars. I'm not saying there's not a decent amount of them. But its not an overwhelming majority as some would have you believe. But, Star Wars is for the masses. They have been event films in the past. People would go see Star Wars, because of the spectacle and the wonder of it all.
I also have to disagree to a point about the merchandising aspect. I still see a lot of people walking around with Star Wars shirts, adults, yes. But, even moreso, kids. My wife's godson has got a TON of Lego sets. He doesn't care about all of this box office garbage. He watches Star Wars to have a good time. Yes. Collectors buy big ticket items. And those might suffer. But Star Wars, at its heart, is still an action adventure movie for the young and young at heart. Yes, TLJ was a little more serious. But so was ESB. This is a franchise that is geared towards the kids. They will get their hands on a lot of the Lego sets and action figures too.
Its a multigenerational story for parents and their kids. The spinoffs are supposed to be for the die-hards. I didn't like Rogue One. I thought it was too much inside baseball. And while I understand that Solo was much in the same way, because I'm not steeped in the EU material like I am the films, it didn't bother me as much.
So, no, while you cannot ignore the hardcore fans, its obvious different fans come to the films for different reasons. And that's okay. But if the market can't bear the niche spinoffs, they're going to focus on the bigger story that sells more tickets. That's what it comes down to.
Respectfully, I don't think I missed your point. You referred to 'fanboys' and I was looking at your comment through that lens, to say that these 'fanboys' are important. As you pointed out, the number of fanboys and how much influence they might have (which would probably never been as much as some might claim) is up to debate, but on the flip side, there's a rush to dismiss and minimize their influence like they might be overstating their influence.
And Star Wars was and is made for mass consumption, but the fanbase is key to that, and these kids who are wearing shirts or playing with the toys, who likely got them those things? Who serves as a pipeline to bring more people into Star Wars?
You could very well be correct that the niche spinoffs might go be nixed, though I don't see it as an issue of the market can't bear Star Wars. The market withstands several MCU films a year, as others have pointed out, and most have done well thus far. And Disney-Lucasfilm could very well just focus on the saga films, but if Episode IX doesn't hit its projected box office take like TLJ didn't, will 'old guard' disgruntlement continue to be ignored or swept away? Or will it be an issue that new Star Wars is not that good or entertaining for even the masses anymore?
That is fair.
Also a fair point, but I easily see three Star Wars shirts a week (not including the ones I wear). And these are just random people of all ages at the store or out to eat. My wife works with kids. She sees a lot of Star Wars shirts. That tells me that this is still big. If it’s because parents bought them or the kids picked them out, that says something.
If they nix the spinoffs, it won’t be right away. But it may happen. And while, yes, the MCU proves it can be done, it isn’t that way for all franchises. It has to have the right formula. I love Star Wars. But I loved it when t was a special event film every few years. I think a lot of people feel that way. Until they do something I don’t like, I will see all of these movies. I can’t necessarily say that the general population will agree. And no, Disney will choose the option that bring some in more money. That’s not going to be with the vocal minority. I’m sorry but simple economics say they will go with the larger number of people. Maybe that will mean dumbing it down. Some make the argument that’s already happened. Time will tell.
I knew I wasn't the only one!
Yep, same reason I've got no real attachment to Star Trek: Discovery.
They both just do nothing for me. I didn't see either as having any vision of their own.
And that's totally reasonable. I think a big part of Rogue One for me, other than the far-too-many-for-their-own-good references and cameos by other characters from other adventures was that it doesn't quite fit. But on top of that, yeah, it answers a question that most people in their right mind ignored for almost 40 years.
As for Disco, it may just be that I give it more slack because while it has some of the same problems R1 has, I'm okay with it. I probably shouldn't be. But, its fine to me. Who knows if that will hold for season 2, if its even really an issue?
Different people react differently, many times for no logical reason. I hope Discovery continues to thrive and make the brand memorable for a lot of fans. I'll probably check out season two once they get past the Spock/Enterprise portion of the season to see if the writers/producers have any ideas or vision of their own to offer.
You are a gentleman and a scholar, Bill.
Well, I have spent more than 40 years being a fan of Star Wars and almost 35 a fan of Star Trek. I read books voraciously in the 80's from both franchises. I really don't get the blind love of Discovery and the hatred of TLJ. Discovery truly tramples all over the visual legacy of TOS, not to mention a good deal of story canon. While TLJ pushed forward into new territory and used Luke like Lucas said he was going to - as the new Obi-wan. So many people are angry at Rian Johnson for Luke being in exile on that island when it was Abrams who stuck with that part of Lucas's original outline (according to the pre-Disney concept art of Ach-to). Johnson had to give Luke a reason to be there given what Abrams had already established. I thought he made the right choice and in watching the special features and hearing what he had to say, I agree with his decisions even more now. It is Abrams who inserted the flaws that Johnson had to fix. It isn't as flawed as Abrams Star Trek offerings, but still flawed. Abrams loves his mystery box story telling and it is a cheap gimmick. A good story can be enjoyed over and over again for the deeper meaning. This whole business of building hype over the secret plot and avoiding spoilers mystifies me. And I have to say that Rian Johnson did a better job of keeping things secret, although a great deal leaked early on, many of the key elements of the finale didn't. As an original 1977 Star Wars fan, I rank TLJ and Rogue One right behind the OT in quality of overall movie making. I'm hoping Solo holds up to the trailers. What I've seen so far is hopeful and as a huge fan of the Brain Daley and Ann Crispin and their two Han Solo trilogies, I've been waiting for this film for a long time. I'm excited that it might be the first in a Solo trilogy.
When it comes to its box office performance, I'm not all that surprised. The troubled production has caused doubts in a lot of people's minds. For some reason they aren't impressed with Ron Howard as director. His Apollo 13 is one of my favorite movies and he has a long history with Lucasfilm. But the opinion of many is that it isn't Solo without Ford. Plus it is up against two huge movies. While it pulled a good number, the two biggest movies pulled in a sizable chunk for the holiday weekend. I think it is just a series of circumstances and in the long run the film is going to be a hit and bring in a sizable profit for the studio. I bet it comes very close to Rogue One. I think that there just is a bit less interest than Rogue One had and some fans are pissed at where LFL has been taking the franchise. I would be very surprised if it doesn't bring in over $450 million. I laugh when people blame Disney because I don't think Disney is telling LFL what to do. In the end, Solo is going to be successful and make them money. Not every blockbuster can turn every $ into 4.
When it comes to its box office performance, I'm not all that surprised. The troubled production has caused doubts in a lot of people's minds. For some reason they aren't impressed with Ron Howard as director. His Apollo 13 is one of my favorite movies and he has a long history with Lucasfilm. But the opinion of many is that it isn't Solo without Ford. Plus it is up against two huge movies. While it pulled a good number, the two biggest movies pulled in a sizable chunk for the holiday weekend. I think it is just a series of circumstances and in the long run the film is going to be a hit and bring in a sizable profit for the studio. I bet it comes very close to Rogue One. I think that there just is a bit less interest than Rogue One had and some fans are pissed at where LFL has been taking the franchise. I would be very surprised if it doesn't bring in over $450 million. I laugh when people blame Disney because I don't think Disney is telling LFL what to do. In the end, Solo is going to be successful and make them money. Not every blockbuster can turn every $ into 4.
LOL.... what are you even talking about?
The MCU has been a massive success thus far, critically...financially and with fans and general audiences worldwide. They are not translating the source material to the screen, but they are respecting it in their adaptations.. hence why the MCU films are so beloved worldwide.
Whatever Feige and his team has done has worked 100 fold, so much so that all the other major studies have tried to copy the MCU formula and failed miserably.
Basically, the MCU is the ideal scenario for any franchise, so it's silly to second guess any decisions that led here.
Amusingly, even Collider [Notorious Disney Star Wars Shills (Red Letter Media makes fun of them all the time because of this)].. admits that there is a significant Fan backlash against Lucasfilm and Kathleen Kennedy now, thanks to TLJ;
This is going beyond the 'angry blogger' phase. Soon industry trades will join in with the negativity.
A significant regime change is inevitable if Disney wants to win the people back, and there seems to be a target from fans beginning to be aimed at Kathleen Kennedy's head.
The negative word of mouth about her is growing substantially.
I couldn't be happier with that.
To say the negativity about Star Wars is only limited to Solo alone... is ignorant.
The negative reactions from TLJ have tainted the brand.
If a brand name like Star Wars isn't selling anymore only a few short years after being relaunched, you know the quality of content is to blame.
Second time I'm linking today's discussion from Collider, but it's worth watching because they discuss this very specific topic in detail;
It's definitely not fatigue, It's the last jedi.
For my part, I would have kept going to every one opening night forever. Sadly, tlj was so bad it not only took the wind out of my sails, it killed my crew and sunk my ship.
After two crappy episode movies, perhaps it's the audience that's getting fatigue.
For my part, I would have kept going to every one opening night forever. Sadly, tlj was so bad it not only took the wind out of my sails, it killed my crew and sunk my ship.
After two crappy episode movies, perhaps it's the audience that's getting fatigue.
Star Wars could have been great under Disney. Especially with the likes of Harrison Ford, Carrie Fisher and Mark Hamill involved in a direct continuation of their iconic characters.
The problem is they relied on the wrong person to shepherd and produce this franchise;
And Lucasfilm certainly hasn't done a good job of avoiding divisive rhetoric in recent yrs;
https://www.geekinsider.com/lucasfilm-president-not-going-cater-male-audience/
Even more recently, the whole Pablo Hidalgo madness on Twitter.
It's not surprising things have gotten to where they are now.
