CBS/Paramount sues to stop Axanar

[Matthew Raymond]

No, I wasn't arguing anything.

I rest my case.

Why do the guidelines have to provide an "extraordinary amount of leeway"?

The person I was quoting was you, and the original text I was replying to was the quoted text.

To reiterate: so one person decides to do one thing with their rights, why should that affect someone else's choice?
What you are suggesting is that because one person made decision X, all must follow that decision.

I'm suggesting that if I had to make the same decision, I would do something more similar to what Cory Doctorow did that what CBS did, and that I think the decision Doctorow made will be largely to his advantage, while the decision CBS made will largely be to their detriment, even if it doesn't make the franchise as a whole completely unprofitable.

And if its legal competition, as in not violating CBS rights, why the fuck should CBS care?

Why should a for-profit company care if it has competitors?!?

You just answered your own question. Competition can affect profits; you don't need a degree in accounting or business to figure that one out.

It was never my question. I think it's fairly clear I was rephrasing the question I quoted in the same message, and that I was trying to show how said question didn't make any sense to ask and seemed easy to answer.

You don't need 45 minutes to tell a good story. You just need talent. And a story to tell. The length should be irrelevant.

If this were universally true, most movies would just be collections of vignettes that last a few minutes each, as people wouldn't care if each vignette was short because they'd get multiple really good stories, and thus get their money's worth. However, not only is that not the case, but Marvel Studios just released a feature film that's a sequel to 18 other feature-length films. Capitalism disagrees with you.

 

[Professor Zoom]

I rest my case.

What case? That facts are facts? Wow, Perry Mason, what's next?

The person I was quoting was you, and the original text I was replying to was the quoted text.

You're right! I did say that. I would say being allowed to make a film, any story you want, within in family friendly presentation (and that's pretty flexible), and up to be able to raise up to 50K dollars on public platforms is a lot of leeway.

50 thousand dollars is a lot of money for a 30 minute film.

I'm suggesting that if I had to make the same decision, I would do something more similar to what Cory Doctorow did that what CBS did, and that I think the decision Doctorow made will be largely to his advantage, while the decision CBS made will largely be to their detriment, even if it doesn't make the franchise as a whole completely unprofitable.

How will allowing fan films be to their detriment?

If this were universally true, most movies would just be collections of vignettes that last a few minutes each, as people wouldn't care if each vignette was short because they'd get multiple really good stories, and thus get their money's worth. However, not only is that not the case, but Marvel Studios just released a feature film that's a sequel to 18 other feature-length films. Capitalism disagrees with you.

I think @Campe98 makes a good point. You don't need 45 minutes to tell a story. THAT is universally true. But, that doesn't support your point, so you have to try and twist it. He wasn't suggesting that ALL stories could be told in 45 minutes. I think you knew that though.

 

[Steven P Bastien]

If this were universally true, most movies would just be collections of vignettes that last a few minutes each, as people wouldn't care if each vignette was short because they'd get multiple really good stories, and thus get their money's worth. However, not only is that not the case, but Marvel Studios just released a feature film that's a sequel to 18 other feature-length films. Capitalism disagrees with you.

Capitalism might be indicating the optimum story length, but it will be interesting to see what new thing emerges from CBS trying to restrict fan films to a non-optimum story length. We might find that people are very receptive to taking a coffee break at work and being able to watch a Star Trek episode. I often read short stories instead of novels when I have time restrictions.

Do we really want capitalism to be the dictator of what good art is?

 

[Professor Zoom]

Capitalism might be indicating the optimum story length,

The story itself dictates the length. Hamlet needs five acts, A Zoo Story by Edward Albee, doesn't.

Obviously, studios will try and keep some times at a certain length so they can have as many screenings in a day. But, not all movies are the same length.

TV shows, because of scheduling--and yeah, commercials, are going to fit into certain slots. But, then, not all TV shows. Especially those on streaming channels or premium channels where time slots are more flexible. An episode of Jessica Jones isn't always the same length. Fargo, in it's first season, those episodes were like 75 minutes with commercials.

And as far as independent filmmaking, the scope of the story would dictate the length of the work.

but it will be interesting to see what new thing emerges from CBS trying to restrict fan films to a non-optimum story length.

For those who are willing to embrace a creative challenge, I think there could be lots of interesting creative work to come out of it. Those who are upset about limits... well, they won't make anything, I would expect. Especially, now they have a reason to not do it.

People who are creative, create.

 

[Campe]

I think @Campe98 makes a good point. You don't need 45 minutes to tell a story. THAT is universally true. But, that doesn't support your point, so you have to try and twist it. He was suggesting that ALL stories could be told in 45 minutes. I think you knew that though.

That’s exactly what I meant. A story should take as long as it takes to tell. One frame or ten billion. As long as it’s done well, who cares? Apparently I’m being too abstract today.

 

[Professor Zoom]

That’s exactly what I meant. A story should take as long as it takes to tell. One frame or ten billion. As long as it’s done well, who cares? Apparently I’m being too abstract today.

No. You aren't.

 

[Noname Given]

He also drank the milk straight from the carton, unset the morning alarm, and left the seat up!

So? That just means he's your average male.

 

[drt]

That’s exactly what I meant. A story should take as long as it takes to tell. One frame or ten billion. As long as it’s done well, who cares?

To be honest, Continues often seemed padded out because they were trying to stretch their idea into “TOS episode run length” rather than telling a tight story.

People also seem to be forgetting that a lot of Berman Trek followed the A/B plot format - and you could easily have “good Star Trek” with sub 30m episodes by only telling one of those stories.

 

[Steven P Bastien]

Hamlet needs five acts,

Interesting that you mention Shakespeare. He wrote five act plays like Hamlet, and also wrote 14 line love sonnets. As for myself, I am more apt to read one of his sonnets than one of his plays.

Basically, even with CBS limitations, there is still an infinite amount of creative space for true artists to explore.

 

[Professor Zoom]

Interesting that you mention Shakespeare. He wrote five act plays like Hamlet, and also wrote 14 line love sonnets. As for myself, I am more apt to read one of his sonnets than one of his plays.

I'm more inclined to the plays.
Except for Timon of Athens. No one should be reading/seeing that...

Basically, even with CBS limitations, there is still an infinite amount of creative space for true artists to explore.

Yep.

 

[Maurice]

At jespah's suggestion I started this thread to illustrate how effectively you can make films that fall within the 2x15mins guidelines restrictions.

 

[Search4]

In my history with Trekbbs this is the longest thread and the one I've been most active on. So a few words.

This is my final post on the Axanar thread under my command. This thread and her history will shortly become the care of an internet library. To them and their posterity will we commit our future. They will continue the disparaging comments we have begun and journey to cover all of the unmade fan films, boldly going where no man, where no con artist... has gone before.

Thanks all for learning about IP - fan films - and the legal system.

 

[Campe]

In my history with Trekbbs this is the longest thread and the one I've been most active on. So a few words.

This is my final post on the Axanar thread under my command. This thread and her history will shortly become the care of an internet library. To them and their posterity will we commit our future. They will continue the disparaging comments we have begun and journey to cover all of the unmade fan films, boldly going where no man, where no con artist... has gone before.

Thanks all for learning about IP - fan films - and the legal system.

@jespah, are we really wrapping this up in a little over a page?

 

[tharpdevenport]

We'd need a re-cap thread with all the highlights and information, as well as Ron Jones music.

"Last time, on Axanar the un-made scam film thread..."

 

[Firebird]

@jespah, are we really wrapping this up in a little over a page?

I think it's time to put Ol' Yeller down.

 

[Campe]

I think it's time to put Ol' Yeller down.

The thread has certainly served its purpose. And had a whole lot of side purposes too.

 

[137th Gebirg]

Two more pages!

 

[Maurice]

I think jespah should lock it at 1700 and make y'all crazy... er.

 

[137th Gebirg]

One page!

 

[Campe]

It’s insane when you think about it! Granted, there are longer threads. But about vaporware? Not so much.