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Spoilers VOY: Architects of Infinity by Kirsten Beyer Review Thread
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I have a few thoughts to share on this.
Preordered this months ago, so it was a bit of a surprise when it came. When I first picked it up, knowing it had had delays, and peeking at the font size versus the page count... A bit light, I thought, but I've been reading DS9 lately which is dense in places, so my perception might be skewed. At first I feared she had to rush it, and it might be a weak instalment. But having read it, I was pleasantly surprised and I'll certainly not misjudge Ms Beyer this way in the future. The character stuff was all great, and I didn't mind that the exploration plot had fewer milestones than normal in order to make room.
My thought with what may be happening on Galen is...
They faked it. Right? They faked it. Holographic crew uprising. We know from Architects that the Galen's organic crew stick together like a clique, and the organic department heads that have only holographic crew in their sections basically keep to themselves and let the holograms do all the work? Right?
There was that entire conversation in Architects, (obviously I'm paraphrasing here) "Hey btw remember earlier in the mission you guys were thinking, like, hey I wonder if having holograms working as crewmates on a ship might make them woke, like the Doctor? What ever happened with that, any of them start showing any, you know, signs of independent thought?"
"Nah, they're all kind of boring actually. I mean, we don't really supervise them too closely, but it's cool because Engineering is like super clean all the time. The takeaway here is, they're all really good at looking after the ship and running things efficiently as a cohesive group, and I don't have to lift a flesh-and-blood finger. Almost like having slaves, but without the ethics issues, 'cuz they don't count as people."
"Wow. How's the Doctor feel about that?"
"He's cool with it. Our working theory is, we figure he's special because his creator was a total dickbag."
"That tracks. The Doctor probably has no real opinion on the situation. He's never shown much passion for photonic liberation even to the point of mutiny, as far as I know."
"Yep, every single one of them, almost conspicuously non-suspicious. Especially lately. It's pretty great."
On an unrelated note, there's that scene where somebody's noticing that Galen's bulkheads are basically a step up from paper for some reason? Like "Gee I hope nothing explody or space fighty happens, I just noticed a stiff breeze could probably blow the ship to hell." It might have been Harry worrying about Conlon, but I can't quite recall.
There is also the fact that all of the right characters are in the right places when Galen "blows up" to do a good thematic follow-up to Flesh and Blood parts 1 and 2, even if she's working with just who's left on Galen (and whatever holographic characters she skilfully creates out of the supposedly blank-slate idiot holograms described in Architects) for large parts of the next book. And there's a good crop of mystery solvers on Voyager right now to help unwrap the mystery of the maybe-missing Galen. Seven can even uncover a conspiracy and prove that while the ship appeared to be exploded, it actually got pulled into a subspace rupture by photonic fleas who were secretly working with the holo-underground, having previously snuck a pair of spy fleas onto Voyager years earlier to collect intel.
I also want to talk about the whole Icheb/Bryce thing.
For at least the last two books, my feels about this were pretty one-dimensional. "He gay? He gay. They so gay.Yay Kirsten Beyer, they so cute, make them do kissing."
The new development makes it more complicated for me because of personal experiences...
My live-in partner of four years, who I fucking adore, is on the autistic spectrum. We are both women.
The behavioural traits and communicational "quirks" that arise from her autism have made this relationship more interesting to navigate, from my perspective, than previous relationships I've had. There are occasional challenges. There are certain types of physical sensations from touching, either by me, or certain textures from objects and fabrics she comes into contact with, that she processes the physical sensation experience very differently than most people. As a result, her reactions to everyday things can sometimes appear esoteric to others and it takes some getting used to.
For me as her partner, the process of learning what she especially likes, what she's comfortable with, what things I need to avoid, in order to make her happy has been a worthwhile (if sometimes frustrating) experience for both of us, but I love her very much, and she's definitely worked just as hard in her own way to accommodate my particular quirks and vagaries too.
Here's the thing. She is also grey-ace, which is a label on the asexual spectrum, which in practice in our particular case means that she's "basically" not into sex, but very occasionally she gets into the mood to do some light play or naughty touching. But only on those occasions when she finds that headspace, which can be few and far between. And that's all she's into, she's just made that way.
She does not, and will never, like sex the way I love sex. I like various kinds of sex, including some kinds that she can't or won't do, and I like to have a lot of it. I am energetically libidinous and do suffer from frustration and restlessness, and yeah self-love is great, but only to a point.
But.
Asking her to accommodate those needs for me, when not only does she have no desire, but would find the tactile experience viscerally distressing, would be a cruel and disgusting thing to expect as a compromise from someone-- Particularly someone that you love.
Aside from sex, we basically do all of the things. Cuddle, smooch, cook and eat together, I tease her and pinch her butt, we tell jokes and laugh and love and cry and then usually she makes me watch obscure lesbian movies. We go on dates, exchange gifts-- She has some "semi-obsessive areas of focus" (like, she's super into Overwatch for example). It's an autistic trait, I found it a little strange at first but you know what, it makes gift shopping a rewarding experience because it's always super easy to find things she'll love and it puts the cutest most gorgeous little reserved smiles on her face. And she blushes, under this swishy asymmetric butch hair thing she's got going on, mmm. It's irresistibly adorable.
And there's times I get that urge, and I desperately want to fuck her cute little brains out. But we can't, because it's just not on the menu for her.
Catastrophic unsolvable relationship-killing problem? Nope, super easy, barely an inconvenience. I just fuck other people.
We're polyamorous, so it doesn't bother her. In fact when I have a really good date with someone else, or a great sexual experience with a friend, she's happy for me. The emotion is called "compersion," and it basically operates like "anti-jealousy..." It even kicks in at precisely the same moments that monogamous people would expect to have jealousy. "You got super-laid today? With someone other than me, your loving partner!? That's great, honey!"
Icheb, the way his "situation" is explained in Architects, kind of reads to me as a combination of (some form of) asexuality, and general problems with his space-boners. And some kind of emotional block like Seven had in Human Error? Maybe? Except maybe not? :/
This is what I took from it.
So Bryce is into Icheb, because hey, Icheb's a catch, right, but Icheb discovers this problem with his space-boners. Could still clearly be asexuality, I bet Icheb's not really a big porn guy so he's probably never run into a situation where he can't get it up on the holodeck for Vulcan Love Slave, Male Edition. Though now that I think about it, the way he's written, Icheb feels more like a bottom to me but I digress...
The situation presented up to that point in the story still tracks if he's ace, because he probably never thought much about dicks until it started to get close to dicks o'clock in his progress with Bryce.
So he goes to the Doctor to clarify the issue. And Icheb's like "no, boys are fine, it's the 24th century and I'm from space so why would you even ask me that, also Bryce is so my type." But he's surprised to find that his body does not behave as though it wants the D, at the moment when Icheb would expect that the urge to be wanting the D would kick in.
I get that his ding-dong's not responding, but the emotions he's experiencing when Bryce finally kisses him are a bit confusing for me. Does he like the kiss? He seems glad but unsure..? I guess? I might be confused because my reading of the situation is heavily influenced by my experiences with my own partner. Icheb seems (by my reading) like he was happy that the kiss happened, in that it opened up a way forward to allow him to become closer to Bryce, with whom he desires non-specific intimacy because they get along and Bryce makes him happy. But he didn't feel the "spark?" Is that it?
So there's emotional satisfaction with the closeness, a desire for further and continued closeness, but the physical aspect of the closeness just, like, fails to recrystalize the dilithium in Icheb's reaction chamber, so to speak. So Icheb doesn't want the D.
But then, when it comes to the subject of concern over developing his relationship with Bryce further, it's like Icheb and the Doctor are treating it like the relationship has "reached its natural sexual stage" and Icheb is worried (that Bryce won't like him??) because he's not feeling a taste for the D right now, and maybe he can't got space-boners. And on this basis, Icheb in his conversation with the Doctor basically makes it clear that while he's sure he does not currently want the D, he wants to want the D, because Bryce.
This is where I'm thinking things might get dicy. An asexual person could probably do a better job explaining this than I will, but here goes.
Real life asexual people are often conditioned to feel shame, and socially ostracized, for their lack of sexual desire and different responses to physical intimacy. In many cases they are pressured by their friends, family, by society in general and pop-culture, and often (ugh) directly by their non-asexual partners who want to do sex things in the context of their intimate partner relationship, because "that is what partners do."
Consequently, a lot of asexual people-- And this is a big deal-- Go to their therapists and their doctors, and they say "something's wrong with me, I'm broken, my sex parts and feels aren't working, I want to want the D. Make me want the D so I'll be normal, and my partner won't dump me and my friends won't disown me and my family won't take me out and leave me on the mountain side." And then, after some permutation of bad advice, snake oil, sugar pills, and uncomfortable, unsatisfying and (coercively) consensual but fundamentally unwanted sexual experiences, everyone involved always ends up miserable at the end anyway.
I'm concerned about the Doctor being involved with this, and would prefer Icheb deal only with Sharak on this issue (Sharak is his actual doctor anyway? Right?). I'm sure Sharak can help Icheb deal with this just fine. Shumon and Barok in the locker room. Barok, his shorts tight. Shumon, unsure at the doorway. Shumon and Barok, at the movies. Problem solved.
Especially considering how the Doctor flagrantly mishandled and abused his position as social mentor for Seven of Nine, his "I wasn't programmed for subtlety" not-so-secret creepy doctor-patient crush. ("She's never experienced living as a woman before, so I gave her a skintight suit and footwear with tiny stilts to walk on. They're called "high heels," I found them in the replicator files under "historical fetish wear." I also gave her long flowing blonde hair that she'll need to painstakingly arrange in a modified french twist each morning, and gently tease for volume. A vicarious experience, as you might imagine. I had to apply the facial pigmentation surgically; As a Borg, she's unaccustomed to making herself presentable to others, but we'll cover that in our first social lesson... 'The More You Act Like a Lady, the More He'll Act Like a Gentleman.'")
It all comes down to the kiss. When I kiss my partner, there's tingles. She likes to be kissed. Not so much with the tongue, that's just a bit much for her. And light petting is a crowd pleaser, but go harder and it's "no thanks." To what degree, then, might Icheb and Bryce just be, you know, a couple of young space guys learning about each other's boundaries, and Icheb's just not sure what's what? I guess I need to go re-read the ending of the book. I might be getting a little too worked up over this.
My main fears are...
If they treat asexuality as a disease that needs to be, ought to be, or even can be, cured, that's a bad message.
If they treat emotional attraction, romantic attraction, and sexual attraction as inextricably linked, that's a bad message. (The kiss. It confuses me as much as it confused Icheb. Can he get the kiss spark back without it also being about space boners? Is he missing his love and closeness feels too, or not? Is he maybe just shy?)
Most of all, it bothered me that Icheb bypassed talking to Bryce and went straight to photonic Casanova. He should just talk to Bryce. They can just be intimate and not fuck. They don't even have to be polyamorous, Bryce can just go romp with holo-twinks unlessthe Galen holo-crew uprising happens and Janeway has to make it illegal or whatever.
I'm not trying to be overly critical. I loved the book. I have faith that Beyer will handle the relationship issues responsibly, I just have a bad taste left over from Human Error and I'm being paranoid because this hits a little close to home.
This was a fascinating post, thank you for sharing such personal insight on the subject! I don't come across a lot of first hand accounts with asexuality, and was actually thinking that this might have been the case with Icheb, but without a working knowledge on the subject or how it effects people, I didn't want to extrapolate any speculation on the subject. Your post came in right on the nose.
I think what jumped out to me the most was the 'shame' that you say many asexual people feel. That's really awful, and on some level I can relate.
I, myself, have complicated sexual preferences, where labels like bisexual or pansexual are a little too broad for me, and using them to label myself I feel like would be misrepresenting me. I can be sexually attracted to any drop dead sexy person; man or woman or trans. Bone jumping of any group is definitely on the table. But historically, I've found myself only drawn to women emotionally/romantically/sexually simultaneously. I'm open to the prospect of that happening with anyone, but it hasn't happened yet, and in general I find men way too irritating (and somtimes just really gross, lol) to be attracted to for anything other than a 'good time'. Your rejection of emotional/romantic/sexual attraction being one and the same is quite apt and really hits home for me.
And it's taken a LONG time for me to understand this about myself. Being asked if I was gay or bi or straight throughout my adolescence and early 20's really confused the subject for me, since I have a somewhat flamboyant personality and am quick to tell someone that I love their outfit or their eyeliner is on point. I was borderline ashamed of myself, because that confusion made me wonder if I was in fact lying to myself about my preferences. People's incapability of understanding that there is a spectrum of attraction and sexuality, who are constantly trying to fit you into their small definitions can leave a person really confused. I had a lot of nights where I'd ask myself, "Wait...am I gay? Why don't I feel gay? Why do I like doing the gay things but all I want is a girlfriend to play video games and tend a garden with? Is that even true? Am I forcing myself to believe that I ultimately want a woman and that's not even true?"
In my 20s I experimented with men after a lot of problems and rejection from women. I thought, maybe what everyone else was saying about me was right and that I'm just a confused gay dude, but all those encounters (while fun) were empty of emotional and romantic value. I was enjoying the attention that I was getting; the type of attention I wanted from women, but it did nothing for me other than keep me very entertained. It took a while and a lot of reflection, but eventually, I came to realize that it wasn't men I was ultimately after, it was the physical intimacy that I desired (to supplement the lack of emotional and romantic intimacy that I wasn't receiving at all) and I just had no physical sexual boundaries between men or women and subsequently trans persons like I was "suppose" to have, in the hetero-normative sense. The problems I was having with my relationships with women up to that point stemmed from unrelated emotional baggage from an unstable childhood, and honestly, I would have had those same problems even if I was exclusively into guys.
And that's where I agree with you on what might be prelude to some icky characterizations on whatever Icheb might be going through at this time. Being told by others that what you feel is incorrect or a problem can really damage a person both short and long term. Making it a disease is just so, so ugly. @David cgc 's worry of "Whoops, the sci-fi metaphor is actually a real thing that happens to real people that I didn't know about" would be a shame if it came to pass, as Kirsten's books are so wonderful and so intimate in their character interactions would really soil what would otherwise be a masterpiece of character development. I hope it turns out okay for our gay boys, because I love them so goddamn much.
For what it's worth, speaking as someone who identifies on the asexual spectrum, I didn't see it being portrayed as Icheb having a disease. What I read it as being, when Icheb spoke to the Doctor about it was that it was side effect of the tampering his parents did to him in an effort to make him a weapon against the Borg, and it played to me more as a trauma response to something that Icheb had never really been able to or needed to process before. Amplified by a sci-fi metaphor, yes, but still a traumatic response. Which, there are people who "become" (for lack of a better term) asexual as a result of some sort of trauma.
I mean, I feel like the intent was to explore it in the vein of Icheb having been traumatized and never truly processed it, considering that before the kiss even happened, Icheb and Bryce were discussing his parents and what they did to him. That while the kiss got Icheb to realize that yes, something was wrong, it was more triggered by the discussion of his parents and what they did to him, now that he's more than five years removed from what happened and in a safer environment with more emotional experience, than it was by the kiss.
Like, I did ask myself the question of if it was being a treated as a disease while reading it, if it meant that Icheb had something wrong with him he needed to fix, and what that said about a character who is in circumstances to act as ace representation, so maybe this was a rationalization about it, but I'm willing to extend the trust to Kirsten Beyer that if the disease angle was her original direction, she can and will course correct, or that it wasn't her intent at all and the next book will offer more context that puts this to rest.
I mean, I feel like the intent was to explore it in the vein of Icheb having been traumatized and never truly processed it, considering that before the kiss even happened, Icheb and Bryce were discussing his parents and what they did to him. That while the kiss got Icheb to realize that yes, something was wrong, it was more triggered by the discussion of his parents and what they did to him, now that he's more than five years removed from what happened and in a safer environment with more emotional experience, than it was by the kiss.
Like, I did ask myself the question of if it was being a treated as a disease while reading it, if it meant that Icheb had something wrong with him he needed to fix, and what that said about a character who is in circumstances to act as ace representation, so maybe this was a rationalization about it, but I'm willing to extend the trust to Kirsten Beyer that if the disease angle was her original direction, she can and will course correct, or that it wasn't her intent at all and the next book will offer more context that puts this to rest.
Maybe it's due to a particular podcast I watched recently, or some discussions I've been having to have with my own doctor, but I saw Icheb's problem as being more along the lines of an ED issue. Like, "I WANT to do the deed, but for some reason my body is betraying my desires."
Might be me projecting, though. I have little to no understanding or experience with what an actual asexual person goes through for comparison.
Might be me projecting, though. I have little to no understanding or experience with what an actual asexual person goes through for comparison.
Yes, that's how I saw it too. He said he WANTED to be physical but was unable to.
Well, Kirsten mentioned on the Trek.fm interview that she does still lurk on the board, though she's too busy to post now, so we've probably guaranteed that won't come to pass by talking about it (though I'm pretty sure it wouldn't have, anyway).
Finally started this one today. I'm not feeling so hot and decided to stay in bed and read some comfort Star Trek. Voyager is really the only series I've kept up with 100% because there's just so much out there now. I think I'll be able to catch up now that production has slowed on Trek books.
I'm liking it so far. Apparently there's a crazy ending? Kind of looking forward to that...
I'm liking it so far. Apparently there's a crazy ending? Kind of looking forward to that...
I loved her take on reproductive rights and personhood of the 24th century. Not a topic I had seen in the books so far, really.
Remember Jean-Luc's misgivings about becoming a father in times of war and incursions. And there was Kira as surrogate mother for Kirayoshi (no gestation incubator available obviously).
If Gwyn's mother hadn't done what she did, Gwyn would have done it herself.
There a societies where having a child means spending the live with the father forever. In the Federation Gwyn saw that there are many different ways. Who says that there must be a father at all or that both parents have to be of different sexes?
Those are more topics of parenthood as a whole. What I meant was more the discussions of what specific rights the mother had in regards to wanting or not wanting the child, what rights Kim had (although he chose not to address those rights until after the fact) and the rights and personhood of the embryo in or out of the womb, which was largely based on the fact that technology could keep an embryo at such an early stage alive. Those takes were what I found interesting, which was thematically well paired with the discussion of rights and cultural norms of the Kriosians, which led into how they addressed their parenthood later on the book. A lot of heavy topics addressed in this story, in a well done manner I'd say.
Can i listen to the audiobook and get it if did not read the previous Beyer VOY books?
Yes.
Any episodes i should watch before jumping in?
Thanks.
I'm currently about halfway through and so far no complaints. I had to refresh my memory on certain things that have happened, but Kirsten Beyer does a good job jolting the memory. I was a little confused with Barkley's reaction to the Doctor using a hologram of Data until I remembered the time period this novel takes place in.
I loved her afterword. I usually read that when I pick up a novel to see if they reference any other novels (sometimes someone will give a shout out to another novel that may have played a part in the current story). Hers was almost a story in itself and she sounds like a very sweet person.
I loved her afterword. I usually read that when I pick up a novel to see if they reference any other novels (sometimes someone will give a shout out to another novel that may have played a part in the current story). Hers was almost a story in itself and she sounds like a very sweet person.
You may not know some of the characters
To be honest, I'm not sure what a "rogue star" would even be within the galaxy per se. Generally the term refers to a lone star wandering in the intergalactic void. Within the galactic disk, stars follow all sorts of different orbits around the center of the galaxy. They often pass close to each other and disrupt each other's planetary systems, but that doesn't make them rogues. The only way a disk star could be considered a rogue, as best I understand the term, is if it's moving faster than galactic escape velocity and thus is just passing through the disk on its way elsewhere. But since this star was moving slowly enough to be gravitationally captured by another star, it's unlikely to have been a rogue in that sense. So I'm not sure what the term was supposed to signify in this context.
I don't think that can be it. As the book explained it, bonding with an unborn embryo/fetus was the only way a metamorph could bond without losing their identity. Any bond with an adult, of either sex, would subjugate their own identity to the other person entirely, and that's exactly what the Kriosian women found a way to escape. So they must've found a way to bond with each other's unborn children, or perhaps newborns.
Even so, it bothered me that the Doctor and Cambridge didn't even seem to consider the possibility that a person could be naturally asexual, and that they treated the capacity for sexual response as if it were an indispensable part of any healthy relationship. Even if Icheb's particular lack of sexual response is abnormal for him, they did seem to be making the generalized assumption that it was abnormal for anyone.
Well, I guess the topic of asexuality as a distinct identity is one that society is still learning about. I didn't even know it was a thing until the past couple of years, I think.
In principle, the star initially moving fast enough to escape the MW,could have had other interactions before the one forming the binary system Voyager was exploring.
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