Discovery Size Argument™ thread
- Thread starter F. King Daniel
- Start date
The Kelvin Enterprise. It was originally conceived at 366m, but when the shuttle was designed huge, when they designed a massive bay to fit a dozen of them and they decided to film engineering in a massive brewery, they cranked it up to 725m with subsequent additions and hull details all designed to that scale, like the plaza in the saucer centre (this cutaway cheats a little by shrinking the number of huge tanks in engineering)
The 305m classic movie ship for comparison (this cutaway cheats a little by excluding most set ceilings)
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This cutaway appears to omit the torpedo bay completely. There simply isn't space for it to coexist with the engine room at this scale.
Nothing about that Federation fleet says "TOS era" in any way, not even the Enterprise...
I don't get the need to set a show in a specific timeframe, and then make it work or look NOTHING like that timeframe. In retrospect, it's truly amazing how well ENT fit perfectly into canon, and created their own specific era in it to play.
This fleet is a mess. And the "Big-E"certainly not like the ship Starfleet would send to face a Klingon fleet all alone and have it stand a chance. Seems no one on the prodcution side actually cared about or watched TOS, at least not the ones with creative control...
Those are scaled down
The "Big-E" was the biggest, baddest, most modern ship from the 22nd century (ENT), to the 23rd century (the Enterprise B), the 24th century (the "D" and "E") and the TOS era alternate timeline as well. The "prime" Enterprise also has the exact same mission profile, and she was quite often described as the "most capable" ship, and that not just because of her Captain.
This is not guesswork. This is a very obvious retcon to 50 years of continuity.
But was never stated on screen, so it isn't canon.
Joanna McCoy was added to the Writer's Guide as well, but that doesn't make the character any more canonical than any other unfilmed idea in the history of Star Trek.No they were the ideas of the people who made the original Star Trek:
I think it's bizarre that the people who invented Trek's intentions can be so easily thrown aside.
They only can if one doesn't have the reverence or respect for the Original, because of "reasons".
Change for the sake of Change, is the new mantra.
I like the show so far, but the production is all over the place as far as really being true to TOS.
They need ONE VOICE out there (like Mr. Feige), controlling the perception of the show, not the myriad of voices all contradicting each other.
I might be misremembering things, but I'm reasonably sure the Enterprise was referred to pretty often as one of the "best" and most premiere ships during the run of TOS.
In fact, so much so, that people needed to be actually reminded the Enterprise was not the flagship of Starfleet during TOS, and that even ST09 did that mistake.
In fact, so much so, that people needed to be actually reminded the Enterprise was not the flagship of Starfleet during TOS, and that even ST09 did that mistake.
And even if it was never stated on screen, the intent was clear. How did we know the Excelsior was the newest and the best, a threat to the Enterprise? Because it was bigger. How did we get a sense that the Federation was outmatched by Balok in The Corbomite Maneuver? Because tht Fesarius was bigger. How did we know that Kirk and crew were on the uncharted edges of space, flying the best ship around? Because, aside from the obvious pride Kirk took in his ship, every other vessel they encountered was smaller than the Enterprise. We were told there were only "a dozen like her" in the fleet, implying she's something special. We're obviously supposed to infer that the Constitution class is the biggest and the best. All future Trek productions indicated advancement with increased size, unless the point was to make the hero ship an underdog a la Voyager and the Deifant, in which case they were (pointedly) smaller than the non-hero ships.
This is like some future production establishing that Kirk is a silicon-based lifeform and people claiming it fits continuity because it was never explicitly stated that he's carbon-based. Well, the show didn't have to! We can reliably infer it from the evidence!
It never ceases to boggle my mind to see people acting like lawyers reading fine print when it comes to interpreting art.
I kinda understand why Discovery and Zhenshou are so big. They're detailed models we see from up close, and there are many interior sets they wanted to realistically fit into these vessels. However, I really don't understand why so many of these random background vessels need to be so huge as well. We barely saw them, they could have been given pretty much any sizes. I understand that Europa (Nimitz class) needs to be big, it was a fleet command cruiser, but they could have easily made the other background ships smaller, leaving Discovery and the new upscaled Connie to be the big guns of the Fleet.
Lots of their intentions have been ignored over the years, even with in TOS itself.
G
Gonzo
Guest
I love diagrams, especially cutaway diagrams.The Kelvin Enterprise. It was originally conceived at 366m, but when the shuttle was designed huge, when they designed a massive bay to fit a dozen of them and they decided to film engineering in a massive brewery, they cranked it up to 725m with subsequent additions and hull details all designed to that scale, like the plaza in the saucer centre (this cutaway cheats a little by shrinking the number of huge tanks in engineering)
The 305m classic movie ship for comparison (this cutaway cheats a little by excluding most set ceilings)
The Kelvin 1701 is great and a ship worthy of the name Big E, I just feel its more realistic as a vessel capable of containing all the resources and personnel needed for a 5 year mission to god knows where with no option to resupply.
I still think they should have turned the centre of the Kelvin 1701 saucer into a helter skelter enabling speedy travel down between decks, with the centre being an upward grav lift with optional firemans pole in case of breakdown.
The addition of a trampoline at the bottom wouldn't go amiss either to really get people moving upwards at speed.
No they were the ideas of the people who made the original Star Trek:
According to that document, the Enterprise is a "Starship" class, not a Constitution class. So, Constitution isn't canon? Also, the shuttle bay can hold a "fleet of modern jetliners". Doesn't look like it on screen. These are examples of "soft canon" I brought up in another thread -- just because an original document / idea says so and so, it doesn't mean we're beholden to it for all eternity.
If the very original ideas put forward by the creators didn't pan out, what's wrong with saying they're wrong about it?
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Oh, but you see, when people where gushing about the Enterprise and how there were only about "a dozen like her", they were gushing about the paint job! The ship itself obviously was nothing special.
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