Spoilers Avengers: Infinity War grade and discussion thread
- Thread starter The Nth Doctor
- Start date
Maybe but there will be a big sacrifice to get there.
Why would I be pissed? That's pretty much how it is handled in the comics, and has been for decades.
This is where I had a little problem with the movie . . . Thanos' motivation. It seemed like a rehash of Richmond Valentine's motivation to commit genocide in "KINGSMAN: SECRET SERVICE". I realize that this motive was actually "Death's" goal in the comics and that Thanos set out to accomplish it on her behalf. It's just that thanks to Matthew Vaughn, I just saw a madman attempt to "cull the herd" of humanity in a movie that was released three years ago. It doesn't feel new. And I wish that Marvel had set up this arc in a previous movie. Because introducing this in this film didn't really work for me. One last problem . . . as I had earlier pointed out, watching so many of the protagonists get killed reminded me of a "Charmed" fanfic I had written nearly a decade ago. And if I think what is going to happen in "Avengers 4" . . . yeah, this definitely reminds of that fanfic I had written.
Actually, I would have preferred seeing this in the second Guardians of the Galaxy movie, along with Gamora's knowledge of the Soul Stone, than that lame story arc about Quill's dad.
Still . . . I rather enjoyed the movie. That's two movies in a row since the "MCU Dark Times of 2016-2017" that I have enjoyed. Not bad.
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I don't think so for the most part (exception for characters yet to have solo movie sequels like Spiderman and Black Panther). Marvel MCU is not that shy about making bold decisions storywise, i.e. the destruction of Shield or the Mandarin (though many hated that Red Herring but i liked it). They also don't have the scope and time to play the kill/revive game that is a staple of the comics, they may throw you for a loop for short while but when they kill it's usually for good (with few exceptions like Coulson who was needed for the Shield show).
I think several heroes will get resurrected and some will be sacrificed (either of their own free will or by Thanos killing them) but the "culling" of the universe may still happen and be permanent because honestly it's a number (sounds harsh, i know) and it opens up a huge new storyline to explore for the next batch of movies though Marvel has to be careful not be become DC 2.0 with all their grimdark stories.
So I haven't gone through the 12 pages of this thread, but I saw the movie yesterday, and I really enjoyed it.
I know it's a different franchise, but I enjoyed this film so much more than the Star Wars movies that came out recently, especially Last Jedi.
So some thoughts--and sorry if they were covered.
1. Did Thanos REALLY randomly kill everyone who died, or did he WILL some people to die, like Dr. Strange? Strange was a powerful adversary. But then again, Thor survived, and Thor almost got the job done.
2. What was up with Hulk? He loses one fight and becomes a coward? This will clearly be answered in the next movie. It's so interesting to see a version of the Hulk like this because it's a lot different than other versions. Banner is in a really good place with the Hulk. He's no longer a curse. In some ways, he's a little like Shazam. Or Heman. Not quite, since Hulk seems to have a separate personality though and doesn't have Banner's intelligence.
That said, why DID Hulk lose so easily? I realize from a writing standpoint, they made Hulk into Worf--a guy who the villain beats up to show he's formidable. That said though, Hulk has always been fairly unstoppable. The more of a beating he takes, the angrier he gets, and the angrier he gets, the stronger he gets, which should make him very tough to beat. For Thanos to take him out so easily goes against what the Hulk is. My reaction to that was that they didn't make Thanos look strong. They made Hulk look weak by dumbing his powers down. DC makes that mistake all the time with Superman. And IF Thanos is that strong that he could beat the Hulk THAT easily, Iron Man should NEVER have been able to come close to even drawing blood.
3. One of the good parts of comic stories is that characters who die can come back to life, so I found that killing them off doesn't bother me. It's part of telling a story. It's a real pet peeve of mine when writers who don't create great characters, but rather inherited them, decide that they can kill them off. Didn't like it with Kirk, Han Solo, Luke, and plenty of others. The biggest reasons are attachment to those characters and by killing them, they can't be used in future stories.
But here? It's fine. This is part one of a two part story, and ended on a cliffhanger. A superhero movie where they villain wins? If there was no sequel, then yes, this would be a horrible finale. But because more is coming, it'll just be the conclusion to a great story. I don't mind status quo returned because again, I want more stories with these great characters.
4. Nick Fury's nature and his work and contacts means that while all the events of the movie were going down, he certainly would have known about it. Given the nature of Thanos and what he was after, why did he wait until he was disintegrating to call Captain Marvel? It's clear he feels that she can turn the tide. Now maybe he viewed previous Avengers movies, like the first attack in NY, as the undercard, but it was clear that Thanos getting multiple stones is the main event. It was also clear that the Avengers were fractured, and while they were fighting the good fight, it was abundantly clear that if Captain Marvel was the super weapon, she was needed. Wouldn't it have made sense to call her before?
5. How can this NOT affect the TV shows? Agents of SHIELD was famously, and BRILLIANTLY affected by Captain America's movie. When SHIELD went down, and Hydra took over, the very next episode threw the show into chaos and changed everything. SHIELD may be trying to save the Earth, but shouldn't we see a good chunk of them disappear? It would be statistically impossible for no one on the show, even if all the cast members survive, to notice people disintegrating left and right. And what about the netflix shows?
I guess that's a start.
I know it's a different franchise, but I enjoyed this film so much more than the Star Wars movies that came out recently, especially Last Jedi.
So some thoughts--and sorry if they were covered.
1. Did Thanos REALLY randomly kill everyone who died, or did he WILL some people to die, like Dr. Strange? Strange was a powerful adversary. But then again, Thor survived, and Thor almost got the job done.
2. What was up with Hulk? He loses one fight and becomes a coward? This will clearly be answered in the next movie. It's so interesting to see a version of the Hulk like this because it's a lot different than other versions. Banner is in a really good place with the Hulk. He's no longer a curse. In some ways, he's a little like Shazam. Or Heman. Not quite, since Hulk seems to have a separate personality though and doesn't have Banner's intelligence.
That said, why DID Hulk lose so easily? I realize from a writing standpoint, they made Hulk into Worf--a guy who the villain beats up to show he's formidable. That said though, Hulk has always been fairly unstoppable. The more of a beating he takes, the angrier he gets, and the angrier he gets, the stronger he gets, which should make him very tough to beat. For Thanos to take him out so easily goes against what the Hulk is. My reaction to that was that they didn't make Thanos look strong. They made Hulk look weak by dumbing his powers down. DC makes that mistake all the time with Superman. And IF Thanos is that strong that he could beat the Hulk THAT easily, Iron Man should NEVER have been able to come close to even drawing blood.
3. One of the good parts of comic stories is that characters who die can come back to life, so I found that killing them off doesn't bother me. It's part of telling a story. It's a real pet peeve of mine when writers who don't create great characters, but rather inherited them, decide that they can kill them off. Didn't like it with Kirk, Han Solo, Luke, and plenty of others. The biggest reasons are attachment to those characters and by killing them, they can't be used in future stories.
But here? It's fine. This is part one of a two part story, and ended on a cliffhanger. A superhero movie where they villain wins? If there was no sequel, then yes, this would be a horrible finale. But because more is coming, it'll just be the conclusion to a great story. I don't mind status quo returned because again, I want more stories with these great characters.
4. Nick Fury's nature and his work and contacts means that while all the events of the movie were going down, he certainly would have known about it. Given the nature of Thanos and what he was after, why did he wait until he was disintegrating to call Captain Marvel? It's clear he feels that she can turn the tide. Now maybe he viewed previous Avengers movies, like the first attack in NY, as the undercard, but it was clear that Thanos getting multiple stones is the main event. It was also clear that the Avengers were fractured, and while they were fighting the good fight, it was abundantly clear that if Captain Marvel was the super weapon, she was needed. Wouldn't it have made sense to call her before?
5. How can this NOT affect the TV shows? Agents of SHIELD was famously, and BRILLIANTLY affected by Captain America's movie. When SHIELD went down, and Hydra took over, the very next episode threw the show into chaos and changed everything. SHIELD may be trying to save the Earth, but shouldn't we see a good chunk of them disappear? It would be statistically impossible for no one on the show, even if all the cast members survive, to notice people disintegrating left and right. And what about the netflix shows?
I guess that's a start.
If the next Avengers movie fixes things with time travel, then the shows need never bother addressing it.
I honestly wish the MCU would do more of that. The "Fall of S.H.I.E.L.D." story arc from four years ago - thanks to "Captain America: The Winter Soldier" and "Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D." late Season One - is still my favorite period in the MCU.
I don't mind if a comic book movie can go "grimdark", as long as I enjoy the story. And honestly? I've really enjoyed Zack Snyder's work with and impact upon the DCEU, along with the more angsty MCU films (with the exception of "Civil War").
If the "Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D." addresses what happened in "Infinity War", I will be very surprised, considering that the movie did not address what was going on in the show . . . namely the fact that some aliens had appeared in upstate New York, where the Lighthouse is located. Come to think of it, considering what happened in Manhattan in the movie, I find it surprising that none of the Defenders had made a cameo in the film.
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The movies and AoS appear to have gone their separate ways other than a comment by a TV character to try and show they still exist in the same universe. It's too bad too. Daisy could have been one of the teams heavy hitters in any of the fight scenes from the movie. Speaking of the events of IW...
In IW, Thor made the comment to Rocket that his friend was stabbed through the chest. Did he mean Coulson or one of the warriors three?
Heimdal
I don’t know if “pissed” is the right word, but I definitely found the experience emotionally underwhelming.
I had avoided spoilers for the film, but The Snap is just too iconic for me not to know it was coming... and that its effects won’t be permanent. Also unavoidable spoilage: the fact that it’s a two-parter, and the only MCU movies coming out in between are set before the events of IW. It wasn’t exactly a surprise when Part 1 ended with The Snap. The journey to this inevitable and ultimately meaningless event was full of sound and fury signifying nothing.
Saw the movie this weekend. Here are my rough thoughts:
1) Movie does a fantastic job of balancing all the characters. Humor was also great.
2) Feels like Marvel's version of Lord of the Rings: a truly epic and grand story with side quests to save the world and a villain who must never get the "super thing".
3) Thanos is a very compelling villain. Movie also does a terrific job of making him truly powerful.
4) His motivation of stopping overpopulation is actually a bit weak. In such a large universe with trillions of habitable planets and the existence of interstellar travel, any planet suffering from overpopulation could easily relocate some of the population to a less populated planet. The only way it would be a real issue, is if somehow every single habitable planet in the entire universe, all trillions of them, were already maxed out. That is virtually impossible. Also, in a universe with super tech and magic, I am pretty they would have the means to easily meet the needs of very large populations where overpopulation would not be an issue. So yeah, Thanos is killing half of all sentient life for nothing.
5) My only nitpick is I wish the movie had shown more people ashing out in the end, not just the Avengers. For Thanos wiping out half of all sentient life in the universe, the effects we did see, were very small scale. I think the post credit scene should have been in the movie itself.
6) Clearly, our heroes won't stay dead but I do hope some of the consequences are not reversed. It would be interesting if the heroes that were ashed out by Thanos come back but the characters that died before (Loki, Heimdall, Gamora) stayed dead.
1) Movie does a fantastic job of balancing all the characters. Humor was also great.
2) Feels like Marvel's version of Lord of the Rings: a truly epic and grand story with side quests to save the world and a villain who must never get the "super thing".
3) Thanos is a very compelling villain. Movie also does a terrific job of making him truly powerful.
4) His motivation of stopping overpopulation is actually a bit weak. In such a large universe with trillions of habitable planets and the existence of interstellar travel, any planet suffering from overpopulation could easily relocate some of the population to a less populated planet. The only way it would be a real issue, is if somehow every single habitable planet in the entire universe, all trillions of them, were already maxed out. That is virtually impossible. Also, in a universe with super tech and magic, I am pretty they would have the means to easily meet the needs of very large populations where overpopulation would not be an issue. So yeah, Thanos is killing half of all sentient life for nothing.
5) My only nitpick is I wish the movie had shown more people ashing out in the end, not just the Avengers. For Thanos wiping out half of all sentient life in the universe, the effects we did see, were very small scale. I think the post credit scene should have been in the movie itself.
6) Clearly, our heroes won't stay dead but I do hope some of the consequences are not reversed. It would be interesting if the heroes that were ashed out by Thanos come back but the characters that died before (Loki, Heimdall, Gamora) stayed dead.
I was speaking domestically, thank you. But yes, 10th worldwide.
REGARDLESS, they aren't permanently killing Black Panther off.
Semantics.
I agree with you there, but it certainly leaves the fates of any character with no upcoming film up in the air.
We won't know that for a year, so TV would HAVE to address it, and then address the time travel within the year.
And I hope it's not a reset ending. I don't mind time travel, but I'd like to see more of a restoration rather than a reset.
They SHOULD have made a cameo. Let's not forget, when SHIELD went down in Captain America II: Electric Boogaloo, Agents of SHIELD addressed it the very next episode. Movie fallout has made it onto this show several times.
