• Welcome! The TrekBBS is the number one place to chat about Star Trek with like-minded fans.
    If you are not already a member then please register an account and join in the discussion!

First Officer Spock?

As for TWOK being perfect, well, no good luck needed really. Now that this command school thing has been settled it's down to Mr. Beach's scanning misadventures.

Beach at the science station? It's way too late to blame him, it's a gross navigation error.

Scotty taking the dying boy to the bridge has been known to give some (like me) headaches. But that's been done enough, no need to sidetrack this thread with it...
 
Why are people assuming everyone has to take the same test? Sure, as we've seen with Troi, you need to do some sort of test to get your command qualifications, so Spock most likely did it as well, but it doesn't mean it is the exact same test for every person.

Because of Spocks comment about never having taken the Kobayashi Maru? Makes his comment meaningless if there were multiple tests.
 
Because of Spocks comment about never having taken the Kobayashi Maru? Makes his comment meaningless if there were multiple tests.
Not really - it's just a callback to the test that he and Kirk were observing a few days prior.

If anything, having multiple "test of character" tests at the academy makes more sense - Spock still took one of them, the KM just wasn't the one that he got assigned to
 
Beach at the science station? It's way too late to blame him, it's a gross navigation error.

Scotty taking the dying boy to the bridge has been known to give some (like me) headaches. But that's been done enough, no need to sidetrack this thread with it...

Yeah, Beach is the somewhat tired-seeming dude at the science station who delivers the "dominated by craylon (?) gas . . . incapable of supporting life" report, then is later shown to be third-in-command ("let's give them a little more time"). Come to think of it, Terrell, Chekov, and Kyle all seem a little drained too, so perhaps this was part of the point, as in, how could they miss out on how many planets were in the system? If I'm Beach and my job is scanning things, I'm running a quick check on the system including the number of planets, the condition of the star, etc. - they are evaluating its suitability for a life-generating experiment, after all. But I get what you're saying that the non-speaking navigator probably needed to be doing a little head count of the planets in order to know which one to head for. Maybe he (she?) deferred to Chekov as a pretty famous navigator in his own right. Scotty bringing Preston to the bridge has never bothered me; dude was out of his mind with grief. And sorry for the threadjack, all. :whistle:
 
AFAIK that's right. Maybe the red is also used by officers in training, to differentiate them from instructors?
Or, something that occurred to me while thinking about your suggestion that the Kobayashi Maru scenario is part of a "grad school" course (as I was going down the stairs on the way to the fridge), maybe the use of red turtlenecks for officers indicates that they are posted as graduate students attending Starfleet Academy?
 
Or, something that occurred to me while thinking about your suggestion that the Kobayashi Maru scenario is part of a "grad school" course (as I was going down the stairs on the way to the fridge), maybe the use of red turtlenecks for officers indicates that they are posted as graduate students attending Starfleet Academy?
Certainly possible, as AFAIK they never explicitly explain the color-coding system in dialogue. So the uniforms are somewhat open to interpretation.

As I recall the long and short bars on the sleeves were supposed to indicate years of service, with the long bar representing five years and the short bars representing one year, but I don't think any of those work out with any of the characters' chronologies. Neat idea, though.
 
Scotty bringing Preston to the bridge has never bothered me; dude was out of his mind with grief. And sorry for the threadjack, all. :whistle:

BTS, I read that Kirk was originally supposed to go to Scotty, but Shatner's Kirk-pride nixed that, and he basically said, Make him come to me!

In universe, the theatrical cut of the film gave us no clue as to why Scotty was so insanely fond of this one young man, and it played just a tiny bit strange at the time. Like, Scotty is awfully softhearted these days! He lost men in "The Ultimate Computer" and "That Which Survives" and got over it pretty quickly.
 
BTS, I read that Kirk was originally supposed to go to Scotty, but Shatner's Kirk-pride nixed that, and he basically said, Make him come to me!
It would also have been rather repetitive to have Kirk go down to Engineering every someone is wounded

I do enjoy the emotional moment of Scotty on the Bridge, but it struggles to make any real sense ;)
 
BTS, I read that Kirk was originally supposed to go to Scotty, but Shatner's Kirk-pride nixed that, and he basically said, Make him come to me!

In universe, the theatrical cut of the film gave us no clue as to why Scotty was so insanely fond of this one young man, and it played just a tiny bit strange at the time. Like, Scotty is awfully softhearted these days! He lost men in "The Ultimate Computer" and "That Which Survives" and got over it pretty quickly.

Ah, these days I tend to doubt most Shatner-as-diva stories. When explored, they typically fall mostly or fully apart. (Not criticizing you at all for mentioning it, Zap.) But sure, that could be right. :shrug:

Scotty only got over Harper's death so easily because he knew he was really O'Neill and would be back in The Tholian Web. :biggrin: And in all seriousness he does seem pretty affected by Watkins' death though he admittedly doesn't carry him to the bridge.
 
Perhaps Spock never had to take the Kobayashi Maru test because he was the one who programmed it in the first place. ;) :evil:

Kor
 
Perhaps Spock never had to take the Kobayashi Maru test because he was the one who programmed it in the first place. ;)

I'm not crazy about JJ-Trek making Spock the author of that test. It was done for dramatic reasons, obviously, to put JJ-Kirk and JJ-Spock more directly at odds with each other. But TWOK-Spock says he never took the test, and it's inconceivable that anyone would create a computer simulation and never play it himself, even in the beta testing phase. And I figure that's why you're winking. :)
 
Yeah, Beach is the somewhat tired-seeming dude at the science station who delivers the "dominated by craylon (?) gas . . . incapable of supporting life" report, then is later shown to be third-in-command ("let's give them a little more time"). Come to think of it, Terrell, Chekov, and Kyle all seem a little drained too, so perhaps this was part of the point, as in, how could they miss out on how many planets were in the system? If I'm Beach and my job is scanning things, I'm running a quick check on the system including the number of planets, the condition of the star, etc. - they are evaluating its suitability for a life-generating experiment, after all. But I get what you're saying that the non-speaking navigator probably needed to be doing a little head count of the planets in order to know which one to head for. Maybe he (she?) deferred to Chekov as a pretty famous navigator in his own right. Scotty bringing Preston to the bridge has never bothered me; dude was out of his mind with grief. And sorry for the threadjack, all. :whistle:

Counting planets is not the key point. The key point is going to the spot where it is calculated that your target planet will be at that time, and a target planet with the exact same diameter, mass , density, atmospheric composition, surface configuration, etc., as the target planet is recorded to have, while also checking that the other planets and astronomical bodies in that solar system as also in their correct calculated positions. Changes as major as Khan says happened should have been instantly detected.

Zap Brannigan said:

In universe, the theatrical cut of the film gave us no clue as to why Scotty was so insanely fond of this one young man, and it played just a tiny bit strange at the time. Like, Scotty is awfully softhearted these days! He lost men in "The Ultimate Computer" and "That Which Survives" and got over it pretty quickly.

In the script and the novelization based on it, Peter Preston was not only Scott's nephew but also only 14 years old. That would have been reason enough to be upset, at least before the script was changed, and maybe that change was not considered when filming that scene.
 
I'm not crazy about JJ-Trek making Spock the author of that test. It was done for dramatic reasons, obviously, to put JJ-Kirk and JJ-Spock more directly at odds with each other. But TWOK-Spock says he never took the test, and it's inconceivable that anyone would create a computer simulation and never play it himself, even in the beta testing phase. And I figure that's why you're winking. :)

Or, just as likely, if Spock wrote the test then, duh, he was never required to take said test. Sure, a test writer knows everything a test so, therefore, it would not be a true test of that author's skill or knowledge.

Spock the test writer would be the same.
 
If Spock actually programmed the test in the true Trek universe, then I don't think it would make sense for him to be required to take the test as part of his official Starfleet curriculum.

Supposedly, a command-track cadet going into the test doesn't know that it's unbeatable, and this will affect their decision making. But the one who designed/programmed the test already knows it.

Kor
 
Counting planets is not the key point. The key point is going to the spot where it is calculated that your target planet will be at that time, and a target planet with the exact same diameter, mass , density, atmospheric composition, surface configuration, etc., as the target planet is recorded to have, while also checking that the other planets and astronomical bodies in that solar system as also in their correct calculated positions. Changes as major as Khan says happened should have been instantly detected.

.

Also known as counting planets, checking the condition of the star, etc.
 
Exactly. The dumb test was a plot device for Kirk because he didn't believe in the No Win Scenario... until he actually faced it during the climax of the movie.
While ignoring all the zillions of time he faced a “no win” scenario previously.
As I recall the long and short bars on the sleeves were supposed to indicate years of service, with the long bar representing five years and the short bars representing one year, but I don't think any of those work out with any of the characters' chronologies. Neat idea, though.
One of the other fanon explanations in the 80s was they represented the position one held. Which largely falls apart because Kirk’s never change from ST2-ST6. (I believe everyone’s remain the same over the course of the movies, which also kills the “length of service” theory).
 
Or, just as likely, if Spock wrote the test then, duh, he was never required to take said test. Sure, a test writer knows everything a test so, therefore, it would not be a true test of that author's skill or knowledge.

Spock the test writer would be the same.

Well, we're looking at two different activities, then. I'm saying you can't create a computer simulation and never run it. And you're saying Spock never had to take it as a school test and get graded on it.

By making Spock the creator of the K.M. test, JJ-Trek highlighted how different Quinto-Spock is from Nimoy-Spock. Quinto-Spock is a harsh, aggressive macho-man who's out to dominate other men, and he's all up in Uhura's Koolaid to get himself some sugar. Nimoy-Spock is nothing like that and I don't belive he ever was. That by itself is a major reason for viewing JJ-Trek as an alternate universe that never connects with the TOS universe. JJ-Trek involves an altered timeline, but it was not the TOS universe before the alteration occurred. It is its own thing.
 
One of the other fanon explanations in the 80s was they represented the position one held. Which largely falls apart because Kirk’s never change from ST2-ST6. (I believe everyone’s remain the same over the course of the movies, which also kills the “length of service” theory).
They have to represent something, as all the other emblems and insignia on the Fletcher uniforms had meaning to them. But if they don't indicate years of service or current assignment, I'm rather stumped. Maybe they're some sort of honorific, like citations of merit? That way the more senior officers could have more but they could still stay the same over the course of several years.
Well, we're looking at two different activities, then. I'm saying you can't create a computer simulation and never run it. And you're saying Spock never had to take it as a school test and get graded on it.
Testing a program you created isn't quite the same as taking the test, though. Especially if you're already aware of all the surprises going in. I think Spock could certainly test the effectiveness of the program without technically taking the test himself.
By making Spock the creator of the K.M. test, JJ-Trek highlighted how different Quinto-Spock is from Nimoy-Spock. Quinto-Spock is a harsh, aggressive macho-man who's out to dominate other men, and he's all up in Uhura's Koolaid to get himself some sugar. Nimoy-Spock is nothing like that and I don't belive he ever was.
Yeah, the Quinto Spock loses me when they have him lose his shit at least once per movie. Each time they go to that well, it has a little less impact than the time before.
 
If you are not already a member then please register an account and join in the discussion!

Sign up / Register


Back
Top