Novels that would make great movies

[fireproof78]

I consider all future events after TOS to be alternate and there is nothing restrictive about continuity or at least there shouldn't be.

Yes, there is. That's the essence of continuity. Is that if you set a prequel, then you know the events and the outcomes. It takes talented writers to take those restrictions and craft characters an audience can get invested in. But, that doesn't make it less restrictive.

 

[Valenti]

Yea, where are we gonna find any talented writers these days?

 

[Christopher]

I don't understand why Trek fans are so hostile to alternate continuities. Lots of franchises have multiple different continuities, whether different adaptations (like comic books vs. the various TV shows and movies based on them -- how many different versions of Batman have there been by now?) or an in-story multiverse within a single franchise (like DC in comics and the Arrowverse, Transformers, etc.). Sherlock Holmes fans can take their pick between three current ongoing adaptations (the Downey Films, Sherlock, and Elementary) plus the original stories and countless other film and TV adaptations. The Godzilla franchise is currently on its ninth canonical continuity in Japan alone, not counting American versions. Fans of other franchises have a multitude of variations to enjoy, and that's part of the fun. It's weird that Trek fans have this fundamentalist aversion to something that's so commonplace in other franchises.

Especially since alternate realities are an established fact within the Trek universe itself, thanks to the Mirror Universe and "Parallels." So adding other alternate histories is just developing an established concept within the existing series. It's the same thing that the Myriad Universes novel series did. Alternate history is a legitimate and vibrant subgenre of science fiction. Many franchises thrive on the exploration of their multiverses. Why shouldn't Trek have the same freedom?

 

[Greg Cox]

As I've commented before, the modern obsession with "canon" and such baffles me.

Take TARZAN for example. Even as a kid, I had no trouble grasping the idea that the original novels, the old black-and-white movies, the new color movies, the Ron Ely TV show, the Saturday morning cartoon, and the Gold Key comic books each had their own continuities and weren't supposed to fit into one seamless continuity. I didn't lose sleep worrying about whether TARZAN AND THE CITY OF GOLD was "canon" or not or whether it was 100% consistent with, say, the old Johnny Weismuller movies. But they were all TARZAN stories and all make-believe. I didn't worry about who the "real" Tarzan was, as long as they were still recognizably Tarzan.

Ditto Dracula, Godzilla, Superman, Logan's Run, etc. Not sure why STAR TREK should be any different.

 

[Captain Clark Terrell]

You know this. We know this. Kirk knows this. Starfleet may or may not know this, because it's obvious that Khan's existence is on a need-to-know basis and Captain Terrell didn't need to know.

Didn’t he? He may not have needed to know the specifics of why a small group of people was living on Ceti Alpha V, but his knowing that they were there at all would have averted disaster for him, his ship and crew, the science team on Regula I and the training crew aboard the Enterprise.

It’s not as if Terrell was a security risk. He had been part of Operation Vanguard—which, for all we know, may have been why Starfleet trusted him to find a site for Project Genesis—so he clearly could be trusted with classified information. Would it have compromised Starfleet security that much to let a single starship captain know why he couldn’t visit Ceti Alpha V? Marcus might have bitched, but the loss one site would not have set her plans back that much.

 

[Tuskin38]

The writers at Bad Robot have to write Star Trek stories, not for their own creation - Frankentrek.

I have no idea what you're trying to say.

 

[Captain Clark Terrell]

I have no idea what you're trying to say.

I think Valenti’s point is that BadRobot has created a bastardized version of Star Trek.

 

[Tuskin38]

I'd have to disagree then.

 

[Greg Cox]

Didn’t he? He may not have needed to know the specifics of why a small group of people was living on Ceti Alpha V, but his knowing that they were there at all would have averted disaster for him, his ship and crew, the science team on Regula I and the training crew aboard the Enterprise.

It’s not as if Terrell was a security risk. He had been part of Operation Vanguard—which, for all we know, may have been why Starfleet trusted him to find a site for Project Genesis—so he clearly could be trusted with classified information. Would it have compromised Starfleet security that much to let a single starship captain know why he couldn’t visit Ceti Alpha V? Marcus might have bitched, but the loss one site would not have set her plans back that much.

My rationalization is that the Genesis Project was also Top-Secret, as was that long-ago incident with Khan, so that, in this case, Starfleet's top-secret left hand didn't know what its top-secret right hand was doing. Starfleet is a big organization, spanning worlds. Not everybody is going to know every classified secret, particularly when it comes to something that happened to fifteen years ago.

As to why Chekov didn't say anything about Khan being (supposedly) one planet over . . . well, I had to tap dance around that in my book!

 

[Captain Clark Terrell]

My rationalization is that the Genesis Project was also Top-Secret, as was that long-ago incident with Khan, so that, in this case, Starfleet's top-secret left hand didn't know what its top-secret right hand was doing. Starfleet is a big organization, spanning worlds. Not everybody is going to know every classified secret, particularly when it comes to something that happened to fifteen years ago.

That’s true. I guess what I’m questioning isn’t so much why the oversight happened but whether the Khan information should have been shared with Terrell had Starfleet realized it was about to step in a humongous pile of its own shit. My sense is that he could have been given enough of the details that he would have avoided the planet.

As to why Chekov didn't say anything about Khan being (supposedly) one planet over . . . well, I had to tap dance around that in my book!

I always figured Chekov forgot until he saw the name SS Botany Bay inside the cargo containers.

 

[Tenacity]

and Captain Terrell didn't need to know

Or the information was available to him, but Terrell didn't look, didn't care, just wanted to get a boring assignment over with, with the least amount of effort.

Unless Ceti Alpha Five was in almost the exact same orbit and orbital position as Ceti Alpha Six, Terrell should have known something was wrong. Unless he didn't care. The planet was in the goldilocks zone and looks (mostly) lifeless.

I've figured for some time that Terrell was basically running a sloppy ship, he just didn't look up the command level information on Ceti Alpha system, apparently not even the navigational information either.

Chekov: "Next system over is the Ceti ..."
Terrell: "Yeah whatever, just get us there."

I don't understand why Trek fans are so hostile to alternate continuities.

I think as long as it's labeled as such there isn't a great deal problem or hostility.

As I've commented before, the modern obsession with "canon" and such baffles me.

Maybe the concept of "fuck the fans" just doesn't go over well with some people?

 

[Christopher]

Unless Ceti Alpha Five was in almost the exact same orbit and orbital position as Ceti Alpha Six, Terrell should have known something was wrong. Unless he didn't care. The planet was in the goldilocks zone and looks (mostly) lifeless.

It's impossible that the destruction of a planet would've gone unnoticed and that one could be mistaken for another. Even without FTL sensors, a planetary explosion would've been a huge enough cataclysm that Reliant would've seen the light from it as soon as they got within 15 light-years of the system. They couldn't not have known.

Maybe the concept of "fuck the fans" just doesn't go over well with some people?

That's a straw man. Inviting new fans into the tent is not an attack on old fans. And fans who insist that their own narrow tastes define all true fandom are the most obnoxious kind of gatekeepers. Lots of fans welcome novelty and change and fresh takes on familiar ideas. I'd think that would be especially the case in a franchise whose explicit mission statement is to seek out the new and go where no one has gone before.

 

[David Mack]

It’s not as if Terrell was a security risk. He had been part of Operation Vanguard—which, for all we know, may have been why Starfleet trusted him to find a site for Project Genesis—so he clearly could be trusted with classified information. Would it have compromised Starfleet security that much to let a single starship captain know why he couldn’t visit Ceti Alpha V? Marcus might have bitched, but the loss one site would not have set her plans back that much.

It was explained in Vanguard that the destruction of Ceti Alpha VI was the result of experiments conducted on Starbase Vanguard, and a top-level decision was made to cover it up by retroactively falsifying the star charts.

 

[Greg Cox]

Agreed regarding "fuck the fans." It's not an either/or thing. Reaching out to new viewers does not automatically mean alienating the older fans, no matter how often it's framed that way. And, again, having multiple versions of the same beloved property doesn't mean pitting them against each other. Ditto for updating or revising one or another continuity. You're not spitting in the face of "the fans" or whatever just because you decide that your new MUMMY movie isn't 100% consistent with the original Karloff movie, or the Lon Chaney version, or the Christopher Lee version, or the Brendan Fraser version, or the Tom Cruise version . . ..

I like to think that STAR TREK as a Concept is bigger than just fifty years of trivia and encyclopedia entries. And I say that as an Old Coot who has been a fan ever since "Mantrap" first aired back in 1966.

 

[Captain Clark Terrell]

Or the information was available to him, but Terrell didn't look, didn't care, just wanted to get a boring assignment over with, with the least amount of effort.

I doubt that Starfleet would have trusted a commanding officer who didn’t care about his work with such an important assignment. While Terrell’s crew appeared to be somewhat weary of the work, there’s no way to know how long they’d been doing it. We know only that they had three months until they were to return to Regula I.

I've figured for some time that Terrell was basically running a sloppy ship, he just didn't look up the command level information on Ceti Alpha system, apparently not even the navigational information either.

Terrell was certainly a more laid-back commander than Kirk, but that doesn’t mean he or his crew was sloppy. Keep in mind that Terrell gave his own life so that he wouldn’t kill Kirk. Anyone with the courage to first look death in the face and then invite him to come closer isn’t someone who’s not committed to his job. I think Greg’s explanation, i.e., that Starfeet’s left hand didn’t know what it’s right hand was doing, is sufficient justification for why Ceti Alpha V fell through the cracks.

It was explained in Vanguard that the destruction of Ceti Alpha VI was the result of experiments conducted on Starbase Vanguard, and a top-level decision was made to cover it up by retroactively falsifying the star charts.

I remember reading that. I’m not questioning why the information was hidden. My issue is more that providing Terrell with some info ahead of time might averted disaster. As Greg pointed out, the classification of the Khan and Genesis information likely led to the oversight regarding Ceti Alpha V; however, had Starfleet realized their mistake, would it not have made sense to provide Terrell with limited information so that he could protect his crew?

 

[Valenti]

Don't you think people would have liked to see an original timeline origins story, just for the hell of it, instead of an alternate one? Who wants to see an alternate TOS?

 

[Captain Clark Terrell]

Don't you think people would have liked to see an original timeline origins story, just for the hell of it, instead of an alternate one? Who wants to see an alternate TOS?

That’s not fair. A lot of people find AU stories fascinating. One of the best Star Wars fan fiction series I’ve read was an AU trilogy in which Anakin never turned to the dark side and instead raised Luke and Leia with Padme while remaining with the Jedi Order. Obviously, events played out very differently in that trilogy than in the original, but it was no less interesting to read.

To be clear, I’m not suggesting that everyone should feel as I do. However, I think it’s important to be tolerant rather than dismissive of new ideas, something Kirk himself told Scotty.

 

[Tuskin38]

Who wants to see an alternate TOS?

Everyone who went to those movies.

 

[Captain Clark Terrell]

Everyone who went to those movies.

More than that, a lot of fans enjoy the episodes in which alternate realities were created or visited. “City on the Edge of Forever” and “Mirror, Mirror...” are two of the most popular TOS episodes, and “Yesterday’s Enterprise” is beloved by TNG fans.

 

[Christopher]

Don't you think people would have liked to see an original timeline origins story, just for the hell of it, instead of an alternate one?

"People?" Which people? People are diverse. Different people want different things.

And of course they weren't thinking just about the origin story. They were thinking about long-term franchise possibilities. They were thinking about relaunching Star Trek as an ongoing film series for a new generation. That's why they needed something open-ended, something that gave them the freedom to take future stories in any direction they wanted for as long as they could sustain the series, rather than needing them to converge on a known future and eventually have to stop once they caught up.

Who wants to see an alternate TOS?

The people who don't care for the original TOS. The people who find it too antiquated in its production values or gender values to be enjoyable. Or the people who don't care which version they get as long as it's about the characters they enjoy. You know, like Sherlock Holmes fans, Batman fans, Dracula fans, etc. People who like the fundamental characters and ideas regardless of the more incidental trappings.