Expanding on "Court Martial"

[Laura Cynthia Chambers]

If "Court Martial" were written today, I could easily see them showing the ion storm incident in flashbacks, framing it so you still couldn't tell whether Kirk was telling the truth or not. Seeing (apparently) sane Finney in the ion pod would make it more of a contrast between the man Kirk thinks he knows and the man he actually is/was.

It would have been interesting to dramatise the incident that got Finney demoted, too, and maybe an unrelated scene before that - when they were still friends, maybe with Kirk meeting baby Jame.

 

[johnnybear]

I thought it strange that we didn't see Ben Finney until the end of the episode and boy did he look pissed at Kirk! Plus I doubt he'd have told Kirk the location of the explosive device so quickly!
JB

 

[Laura Cynthia Chambers]

If what?

 

[ZapBrannigan]

If "Court Martial" were written today, I could easily see them showing the ion storm incident in flashbacks, framing it so you still couldn't tell whether Kirk was telling the truth or not. Seeing (apparently) sane Finney in the ion pod would make it more of a contrast between the man Kirk thinks he knows and the man he actually is/was.

It would have been interesting to dramatise the incident that got Finney demoted, too, and maybe an unrelated scene before that - when they were still friends, maybe with Kirk meeting baby Jame.

That would be the modern way to film this episode, and it would be pretty cool. But I'd say that, even on my long-forgotten first viewing as a kid, I knew Kirk was telling the truth. He was Kirk, and his greatness was part of Star Trek's essence.

 

[Samuel]

I thought it strange that we didn't see Ben Finney until the end of the episode and boy did he look pissed at Kirk! Plus I doubt he'd have told Kirk the location of the explosive device so quickly!
JB

There was no explosive device. Finney had sabotaged the power systems of the Enterprise so they didn't have operational impulse engines and would fall out of orbit and burn up in the atmosphere.

By the way, for Enterprise to be (often) in danger of plunging in to the atmosphere whenever they lost engine power it is apparent that the "standard orbit" was not like any "orbit" as we understand it. In even a low orbit over an Earth type planet, the orbiting object will remain there for weeks, months, years without any additional propulsion being applied.

For the Enterprise to start having its "orbit" immediately start decaying indicates that the "standard orbit" was not an "orbit" at all but an impulse engine sustained hover over one spot probably to maintain transporter locks (mentioned as being a 1,000 mile radius in one episode).

 

[MAGolding]

There was no explosive device. Finney had sabotaged the power systems of the Enterprise so they didn't have operational impulse engines and would fall out of orbit and burn up in the atmosphere.

By the way, for Enterprise to be (often) in danger of plunging in to the atmosphere whenever they lost engine power it is apparent that the "standard orbit" was not like any "orbit" as we understand it. In even a low orbit over an Earth type planet, the orbiting object will remain there for weeks, months, years without any additional propulsion being applied.

For the Enterprise to start having its "orbit" immediately start decaying indicates that the "standard orbit" was not an "orbit" at all but an impulse engine sustained hover over one spot probably to maintain transporter locks (mentioned as being a 1,000 mile radius in one episode).

Yes. The way the Enterprise kept falling out of "orbit" when it lost power certainly made if seem like "standard" orbit was either very low where atmospheric drag was high, or else was like you say hovering. A hovering spacesip would start to fall if it loss its propulsion system, but no doubt starship engines had such great power that the amount necessary to hover would be insignificant - until something disabled the engines.

I note that in aeronautics the term "orbit" was sometimes used for an airplane flying in a holding pattern. Of course an airplane has to keep using its engines or it will crash and burn. So maybe an ex pilot like Gene Roddenberry used to airplanes "orbiting" wouldn't notice any problems with the Enterprise losing power and starting to fall out of orbit. But what was the excuse of the rest of the TOS staff?

 

[Commishsleer]

That would be the modern way to film this episode, and it would be pretty cool. But I'd say that, even on my long-forgotten first viewing as a kid, I knew Kirk was telling the truth. He was Kirk, and his greatness was part of Star Trek's essence.

I agree. Just as I knew that Spock didn't kill Kirk in "The Enterprise Incident". The question was how was he going to prove otherwise as 'computers don't lie' and his lawyer sucked.

 

[Samuel]

In fairness, before he went to trial in "Courtmartial" didn't Starfleet offer Captain Kirk an "out" where he was going to be allowed to basically admit to "panicking" and ejecting Finney prematurely?

Kirk rejected it of course

 

[Samuel]

I note that in aeronautics the term "orbit" was sometimes used for an airplane flying in a holding pattern. Of course an airplane has to keep using its engines or it will crash and burn. So maybe an ex pilot like Gene Roddenberry used to airplanes "orbiting" wouldn't notice any problems with the Enterprise losing power and starting to fall out of orbit. But what was the excuse of the rest of the TOS staff?

Very good point. It is worth noting that at the time "Courtmartial" was written, Sputnik One was only 9 years in the past.

 

[Commishsleer]

Very good point. It is worth noting that at the time "Courtmartial" was written, Sputnik One was only 9 years in the past.

Yet in "This Side of Paradise" the Enterprise was going to be left in orbit indefinitely. Maybe the writers were learning fast.

 

[Samuel]

Yet in "This Side of Paradise" the Enterprise was going to be left in orbit indefinitely. Maybe the writers were learning fast.

In fairness, in "This Side of Paradise" none of the crew were thinking straight. Even Kirk for awhile.

Interesting in "This Side of Paradise" Kirk was able to overcome the spores simply by his underlying revulsion at the idea of giving up the Enterprise while for everyone else (including Spock) it apparently took getting into fistfights to have the same effect.

 

[Tenacity]

Vanguard 1 was launched in March 1958, it's still in orbit.

 

[Commishsleer]

Maybe in "Court Martial" they put the ship in an unstable orbit to force Finney's hand.

 

[Herbert]

I thought it strange that we didn't see Ben Finney until the end of the episode and boy did he look pissed at Kirk!

Richard Webb did a great job as Finney. He had the I'm pissed off and borderline insane thing going on perfectly. He may be the only guy who could compete with Khan in the "I hate James T Kirk more than you do" sweepstakes.

 

[J.T.B.]

^Yeah, the way Webb spits out "Hello, Captain!" always makes me think of a radio actor, which Webb was I guess, though he mostly did screen work. But even though "Court Martial" has a lot of problems, Webb, Joan Marshall, Percy Rodrigues and Elisha Cook Jr. are about as solid a guest star pack as the series ever had.

 

[Noname Given]

I thought it strange that we didn't see Ben Finney until the end of the episode and boy did he look pissed at Kirk! Plus I doubt he'd have told Kirk the location of the explosive device so quickly!
JB

Why was that strange - his supposed 'death' was the entire focal point of the story. Once he shows up, Kirk is off the hook and vindicated. As for telling Kirk the location of where he sabotaged the power relays so quickly - Kirk told him his daughter was now on board. Finny wanted Kirk and the other Captains dead, not his daughter.

 

[F. King Daniel]

Yes. The way the Enterprise kept falling out of "orbit" when it lost power certainly made if seem like "standard" orbit was either very low where atmospheric drag was high, or else was like you say hovering. A hovering spacesip would start to fall if it loss its propulsion system, but no doubt starship engines had such great power that the amount necessary to hover would be insignificant - until something disabled the engines.

I note that in aeronautics the term "orbit" was sometimes used for an airplane flying in a holding pattern. Of course an airplane has to keep using its engines or it will crash and burn. So maybe an ex pilot like Gene Roddenberry used to airplanes "orbiting" wouldn't notice any problems with the Enterprise losing power and starting to fall out of orbit. But what was the excuse of the rest of the TOS staff?

This can't be. The internet assures me that Star Trek's science was solid up until a few years ago.

 

[johnnybear]

Why was that strange - his supposed 'death' was the entire focal point of the story. Once he shows up, Kirk is off the hook and vindicated. As for telling Kirk the location of where he sabotaged the power relays so quickly - Kirk told him his daughter was now on board. Finny wanted Kirk and the other Captains dead, not his daughter.

No I meant as in a flashback rather than just a voice on a tape!
JB

 

[Laura Cynthia Chambers]

But I'd say that, even on my long-forgotten first viewing as a kid, I knew Kirk was telling the truth. He was Kirk, and his greatness was part of Star Trek's essence.

It wouldn't be about knowing he was or wasn't for everyone, I agree. It would be more helpful from an exposition standpoint.

 

[Poltargyst]

^Yeah, the way Webb spits out "Hello, Captain!"

I always liked that. "Hello, Captain. Nothing to say, Captain?"