Poll Do you consider Discovery to truly be in the Prime Timeline at this point?

[Jesse1066]

The only scifi series I've seen that was worse than Voyager was "Stargate SG-1, which I also despise.

 

[Tuskin38]

The only scifi series I've seen that was worse than Voyager was "Stargate SG-1

I'm going to go cry now.

 

[Gonzo]

Good at the time but it hasn't aged well even though it isn't that old.

 

[fireproof78]

Good at the time but it hasn't aged well even though it isn't that old.

Based on what?

 

[cooleddie74]

I've never cared all that much for SG-1...but a terrible show? Eh. Unimpressed doesn't necessarily mean "bad." I've seen FAR worse sci-fi series than SG-1 and in just the past decade.

Sliders started out as a much better series than anything in the Stargate franchise but fell apart fast once Jerry O'Connell left the cast. It was pretty bad by the time it ended.

 

[Butters]

I was never gripped by stargate, though I liked the concept, and if it was on I’d generally engage with the story, but not enough to care. What was obvious though was that the cast loved it, the production crew loved it, and the output was consistent acceptable nineties tv sci fi.

Terrible my arse. If I was going to name bad sci fi series, I’d find that I couldn’t because I don’t watch shit. Though for style over substance, nuBSG.

 

[F. King Daniel]

I loved Stargate SG-1 and Atlantis, they're better spiritual successors to TOS than any of the official spin-offs.

Sliders was a fantastic concept that's begging for a reboot, but the execution varied from okay in seasons 1 and 2 to outright terrible thereafter.

 

[Discofan]

I have a fondness for SGA, Stargate Atlantis. I like the idea of a hyper-advanced city that can move through space on its own power, filled with all sorts of amazing devices. Like the one that allows you to exchange minds with people thousands of light years away! People from other Species at that!!

 

[Gonzo]

I have a fondness for SGA, Stargate Atlantis. I like the idea of a hyper-advanced city that can move through space on its own power, filled with all sorts of amazing devices. Like the one that allows you to exchange minds with people thousands of light years away! People from other Species at that!!

Oh I loved SG at the time and was ok with SGA but they just dont really have any revisit value for me like some shows do.

 

[Crazy Eddie]

I've never cared all that much for SG-1...but a terrible show? Eh. Unimpressed doesn't necessarily mean "bad." I've seen FAR worse sci-fi series than SG-1 and in just the past decade.

Sliders started out as a much better series than anything in the Stargate franchise but fell apart fast once Jerry O'Connell left the cast. It was pretty bad by the time it ended.

The collapse of Sliders broke my fucking heart. I used to LOVE that show when I was a kid, and then cast members started dropping off and it turned completely to shit.

So much wasted potential!

Someone recently pointed out to me that one of the reasons I probably dislike SG-1 so much is because I was more a fan of the Stargate movie before the series was even hinted at. If you go into the series expecting it to be a direct sequel or continuation of the movie, it's going to start seeming really weird about halfway through the pilot episode.

I'm told that if you trick yourself into thinking the movie is completely unrelated to the TV series, it's a lot more watchable. Alas, it seems I have never been able to fully achieve this with SG-1 (Stargate Universe doesn't seem to have this problem, it's just... eh...)

 

[Tuskin38]

I enjoy both the movie and series

 

[Discofan]

The collapse of Sliders broke my fucking heart. I used to LOVE that show when I was a kid, and then cast members started dropping off and it turned completely to shit.
....

It all started when they killed off the Professor.

 

[Crazy Eddie]

I enjoy both the movie and series

I don't doubt that, but for a long period of time the movie was ALL THERE WAS and the TV series wasn't even conceived of. I didn't get to watch SG-1 for the first time until about 6 years after I saw the movie in theaters. So there MIGHT be something to that.

 

[Tuskin38]

3 years isn’t that long of a time. But I get what you mean since you didn’t personally see it

 

[jaime]

You're coming to the defense of the small vocal minority that flamed "The Last Jedi" despite overwhelmingly positive critical reviews and the similar (if not overlapping) fan community that continues to drag "Discovery" for such venial sins as not putting hair on the Klingons. At the risk of repeating myself, back in the first half of the season I had an amusing discussion where someone called me "an arrogant motherfucker" for pointing out that Harry Mudd's beard probably wasn't that huge of a canon violation on account of the existence of razor blades.

These are functionally similar to a person making a scene at a restaurant because his hamburger has mayo instead of ketchup.

This is essentially what you are defending.


I've given up on taking toddlers and ratchet people to fancy restaurants since I know such people are likely to do something obnoxious if they don't get what they're expecting to get. I've completely given up on Star Wars fandom for much the same reason. I've ALMOST given up on Star Trek fandom, but it's not all bad.

Relatedly, I don't like Star Trek: Voyager. It's my LEAST favorite Star Trek series. The only scifi series I've seen that was worse than Voyager was "Stargate SG-1, which I also despise. I do not watch Voyager except for the handful of episodes I find almost tolerable, nor do I watch Stargate. I also don't go to the Voyager forums or the Stargate forums to tell people there how much I hate those shows. I don't go on IMDB and deliberately post negative reviews to drag its rating down. I don't write long rambling blog posts about all the things those shows are doing wrong and why the writers of those shows should be ashamed for pushing such a terrible product.

The reason I don't do this is because I'm not an overgrown man-child who has to show my ass when I don't like something. This is, however, a DISCUSSION BOARD, so if you express the opinion that such behavior is justifiable or acceptable, I'll happily share my dissenting viewpoint with you.

Nope.
I am saying that it is acceptable to discuss, dissent, be annoyed at DSC/TLJ without the reason being a fault in the dissenter, I am even saying that being a tit about it, (or being a tit about how great these things are vs dissenters) is wrong. Assuming anyone that holds something in disregard is united in opinion and approach with others who also hold that thing in disregard is false logic. You and I share a dislike of Stargate, but possibly for different reasons and express it in different ways.
In terms of DSC and TLJ, they are part of a franchises that have a fan base, the fan base is definitely a part of the target audience, and yes we are gonna discuss why we don’t like x about the latest iteration, or feel let down because we were looking forward to it...our love for the franchise will even lead to criticism about how it could be better. Expectations are not created in a vacuum.
Dissent, discussion, these are fine, as you so rightly say, this place is about discussion.
It’s the whole polarisation, and both sides Rrrrrraaggggeeee that is unwarranted, including your own in my direction over these posts. For a start, you don’t seem to be able to work out what side of the divide I am even on, merely that I think people are entitled to their opinions of dissent, and can see why that happens...this is enough for you have your own rrraaaggeee based on your responses.

 

[Crazy Eddie]

Nope.
I am saying that it is acceptable to discuss, dissent, be annoyed at DSC/TLJ without the reason being a fault in the dissenter

We're not talking about discussion or annoyance. We're talking about:

"I refuse to believe Luke Skywalker would ever act like a grumpy old man on a secluded island who doesn't give a shit about anyone or anything!" sums up alot of people's reaction to that opening scene. What, do you suppose, that reaction could be based on if not an overly specific interpretation of who and what Luke Skywalker actually is?

And if you have a very specific idea of who a particular character is, then any behavior that deviates from that idea shatters your illusions. This is, evidently, the problem with Discovery too: there's a small but highly vocal population that has a very specific vision for what Star Trek is SUPPOSED to be, and they react very badly when it doesn't measure up to their vision.

You chimed in that reacting badly is perfectly acceptable. Of course, I'm reminded that this original post was originally directed at Rahul, who hates Discovery so much he's been reduced to making fat jokes about Mary Weisman.

In terms of DSC and TLJ, they are part of a franchises that have a fan base, the fan base is definitely a part of the target audience, and yes we are gonna discuss why we don’t like x about the latest iteration, or feel let down because we were looking forward to it...our love for the franchise will even lead to criticism about how it could be better. Expectations are not created in a vacuum.
Dissent, discussion, these are fine, as you so rightly say, this place is about discussion.

Discussion implies critical thinking and analysis. Complaints and bitching involve neither.

For a start, you don’t seem to be able to work out what side of the divide I am even on

Three different posts I pointed out that you are coming TO THE DEFENSE of that which even you concede is not actually defensible. So what, actually, is your point?

 

[jaime]

We're not talking about discussion or annoyance. We're talking about:


You chimed in that reacting badly is perfectly acceptable. Of course, I'm reminded that this original post was originally directed at Rahul, who hates Discovery so much he's been reduced to making fat jokes about Mary Weisman.


Discussion implies critical thinking and analysis. Complaints and bitching involve neither.


Three different posts I pointed out that you are coming TO THE DEFENSE of that which even you concede is not actually defensible. So what, actually, is your point?

There’s nothing wrong with that post about TLJ. A fan may have expectations, and if they are based in their reading of the franchises canon so far, those expectations are valid. He’s also not expressing it in a particularly unpleasant way, beyond a slightly hyperbolic description of grumpy old man Luke. (last of the summer blue milk...)

Fat jokes about wiseman are uncalled for, but it’s just the polar opposite of the people mopping up the drool after Mirror Tilly strut on screen. Both sides lead to eye rolls.

My point has not changed.

 

[fireproof78]

The collapse of Sliders broke my fucking heart. I used to LOVE that show when I was a kid, and then cast members started dropping off and it turned completely to shit.

So much wasted potential!



Someone recently pointed out to me that one of the reasons I probably dislike SG-1 so much is because I was more a fan of the Stargate movie before the series was even hinted at. If you go into the series expecting it to be a direct sequel or continuation of the movie, it's going to start seeming really weird about halfway through the pilot episode.

I'm told that if you trick yourself into thinking the movie is completely unrelated to the TV series, it's a lot more watchable. Alas, it seems I have never been able to fully achieve this with SG-1 (Stargate Universe doesn't seem to have this problem, it's just... eh...)

I really didn't treat them as the same. Teal'c pretty much sealed that deal for me, that and the book series all about the aftermath of the film

I love the original SG film, but I'll never try to compare it to the series in terms of what was done. The film was dour and series with the military scenes, while the show demonstrated some incredible respect for the Air Force that the show received an Air Force award, as well had cameos from two Air Force Admirals "touring" the base.

It is that level of detail that keeps me rewatching.

As for science fiction in general, I watched "Sci Fi" channel weekly as a teen because some of the best science fiction was on at that point. Farscape, SG-1, Invisible Man, among others, all just were right up my ally at that point.

 

[Crazy Eddie]

There’s nothing wrong with that post about TLJ.
A fan may have expectations, and if they are based in their reading of the franchises canon so far, those expectations are valid. He’s also not expressing it in a particularly unpleasant way, beyond a slightly hyperbolic description of grumpy old man Luke.

Who are you even talking about?

Fat jokes about wiseman are uncalled for, but it’s just the polar opposite of the people mopping up the drool after Mirror Tilly strut on screen.

No, Jaime being an asshole is not the polar opposite of showing admiration. Being an asshole is the polar opposite of not being an asshole.

Kindly refrain from playing the false equivalence game here; complimenting someone and insulting someone are NOT equivalent behaviors.

 

[jaime]

Who are you even talking about?


No, Jaime being an asshole is not the polar opposite of showing admiration. Being an asshole is the polar opposite of not being an asshole.

Kindly refrain from playing the false equivalence game here; complimenting someone and insulting someone are NOT equivalent behaviors.

There are compliments and then there are compliments. Whilst generally the Tilly love does stop just short of ‘Phwoar, I’d give her one, and twice on Sundays!’ Mark, it does get close. Personally, I think Tilly is the least photogenic lead in Trek since Miles O’Brien. As a rule, we are all Hollywood pretty, or borderline, by the 23rd and 24th century. A least the leads and main guest cast usually are.

The post you quoted that I replied to, started by suggesting Old Fart On An Island Edition Luke Skywalker (action figure with real lactation sucking action! from Hasbro!) (TM) is not something some people find a logical outgrowth of the character as they have seen it. It was not an offensive opinion, nor particularly ‘entitled’. As I say, my opinion won’t be truly formed till I see the film on disc, but based on what I have read and seen so far, I can see how that is a valid criticism.
Dickheads editing the ladies out of the film is not really in the same area is it? Unless you simply define area as ‘Didnt Like TLJ and was Not Happy About it’.
*shrug*
Maybe people were seriously happy to get new Trek after a drought, so maybe they are gonna discuss that and what they feel let down by or what they felt good about. Personally, I think it’s unwise to make fun of Harry Kim’s great great grandmother, in case he comes back in time with some hair gel and a phaser.