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Spoilers Walking Dead Season 8 discussion and spoilers.

8.28 million for this episode, an uptick from the finale, but only as high as episode 6 from this season. Honestly, the show can fall another 4x and still be a smash hit. Like Rose's heart at the end of Titanic, the Walking dead will go on and onnnnnnnnn.
Plus, it was the 'premiere'. You'll probably see a sizable drop next week. As for this "Finally time to fight' storyline - it lost me when they had Rick and Co. suddenly NOT willing to just outright kill Neegan and his inner circle. Sorry, but yes, some people just go too far to be allowed to live after the situations all the other communities have experienced under Neegan and the Saviors.

Hell, in the Morgan flashback, as the Saviors were shooting the Zombies keeping them penned in; I was like "Why are you not shooting those Saviors down? You want them to escape? Rick and the rest supposedly declared war; but now WON'T shoot to kill the enemy?

Sorry, but the whole "kinder/gentler" reversion is just stupid at this particular point in the storyline; and it's just often painful to watch. You can get 'kinder and gentler' AFTER you've rid the world of Neegan and the Saviors.
 
Hell, in the Morgan flashback, as the Saviors were shooting the Zombies keeping them penned in; I was like "Why are you not shooting those Saviors down? You want them to escape? Rick and the rest supposedly declared war; but now WON'T shoot to kill the enemy?

Um... those points were pretty clearly addressed on screen. Morgan didn't shoot because he would have taken one shot, and then would have been taken out by automatic gunfire (though I don't understand why the saviors didn't try this move earlier). Rick wanted Negan to surrender to end the war right then and there, instead of having it continue after Negan's death. And no you can't get "kinder and gentler after you get rid of the Saviors". The saviors is clearly a HUGE group, and you would have killed a huge number of humans in an already dwindling population.
 
I don't necessarily mind the bleakness of the show, but the sheer brutality of the Season 7 opener was what really turned me off. It's one thing to watch zombies get picked off in new and creative ways, but it's quite another to see living, breathing people be bludgeoned to death in graphic detail.

The odd thing is, there's more brutal violence (as in people being murdered) on Game of Thrones, and its fanbase eats it up, with some praising how "real" or "daring" it is. In TWD's case, violence actually serves the story and it's not there just because you can put that in front of a camera. Though I'm no fan of brutality for the sake of it, the Negan scene established how uncompromising / threatening he was right out of the gates. That served the story. It would have moved to the side of exploitation if Negan was beating heads in every other episode, just for AMC to get everyone to anticipate the next murder, but the one time he killed anyone on screen (so far), it was, again, in the service of the story.
 
Organisms develop natural immunities to pathogens all the time. To quote the wrong franchise: "Life... finds a way."

But you know if they suggested that, fans would ask for an explanation of some kind, or still want to know what caused the disease in the first place, and Kirkman will never go there.
 
But you know if they suggested that, fans would ask for an explanation of some kind, or still want to know what caused the disease in the first place, and Kirkman will never go there.

Turning the Walking Dead into Sci-Fi will defeat it's purpose. It just isn't about that. It's about what happens after humanity survives the initial outbreak. Having it deal with causes and cures changes it's purpose.
 
Yea I figured Carl would never die. Just as he got interesting they kill him off. Shame. I understand the actor wanted off the show but I never understand why they need to kill him off. Have him die a mysterious death like fall into a river so he can come back (and better than hiding under a dumpster) or just pull a soap opera stunt and say the Part of Carl will no be played by X.

Anyway, this show feels like it is just dragging stuff out for the past 2 seasons and I have really lost interest.
 
Still wondering about the helicopter.. some sort of survey mission from an EU that survived the outbreak and remains relatively intact?
 
Yea I figured Carl would never die. Just as he got interesting they kill him off. Shame. I understand the actor wanted off the show but I never understand why they need to kill him off. Have him die a mysterious death like fall into a river so he can come back (and better than hiding under a dumpster) or just pull a soap opera stunt and say the Part of Carl will no be played by X.

Anyway, this show feels like it is just dragging stuff out for the past 2 seasons and I have really lost interest.

With Carl it would be extremely hard to explain why he would leave. Show-wise is is like what 14...so kinda sorta a child...he has a sister to help take care of...lots of friends and family.

Morgan is a logical choice to leave the main show without dying as he has done his own thing before. A few other characters might be able to do that (Carol and Darryl could have for example). But Carl would be least likely unless Rick and Judith went with him
 
With Carl it would be extremely hard to explain why he would leave. Show-wise is is like what 14...so kinda sorta a child...he has a sister to help take care of...lots of friends and family.

Morgan is a logical choice to leave the main show without dying as he has done his own thing before. A few other characters might be able to do that (Carol and Darryl could have for example). But Carl would be least likely unless Rick and Judith went with him
With Carl it would be extremely hard to explain why he would leave. Show-wise is is like what 14...so kinda sorta a child...he has a sister to help take care of...lots of friends and family.

Morgan is a logical choice to leave the main show without dying as he has done his own thing before. A few other characters might be able to do that (Carol and Darryl could have for example). But Carl would be least likely unless Rick and Judith went with him

hence why I said it needs to be a "mysterious death" where everyone thinks he is dead. Otherwise, yes, everyone would run off after him.
 
Yea I figured Carl would never die. Just as he got interesting they kill him off. Shame. I understand the actor wanted off the show but I never understand why they need to kill him off.

Chandler Riggs said he wanted to stay on the show, and Gimple promised his contract would be renewed. AMC and associated showrunners had other ideas.

Anyway, this show feels like it is just dragging stuff out for the past 2 seasons and I have really lost interest.

How should it flow?
 
The Walking Dead - episode 10--
"The Lost and the Plunderers"

Not long after burying Carl

Character name cards. Unique touch.

Michonne's reaction to Carl's death surpasses that of his father, and I'm not sure if that was the showrunner's intent. Then again, her journey was one of self imposed isolation (blaming herself for her infant's death), then finding a second family, so I guess one can argue Carl's death was/is too much for her to handle. Her looking back at the Alexandria Safe Zone sign could have two meanings--one, is the obvious loss of their home, but it was Michonne who insisted the group follow Eugene's reasoning for going to Washington (season 5B) in her hope of finding a real home (and not being a pack of wandering killers). If the group returned home after the failed trip to Noah's home, no Negan, and Carl would be alive. Techinically, this latest tragedy could be pinned on her.

Simon's cannot last long bumping heads with Negan over leadership, and after deliberately disobeying Negan by killing all but one of the junkyard group, I wonder if he (Simon) will be able to recruit others to either show Negan how its done, or attempt a hostile takeover.

I guess Rick will not accept Carl's last message until he loses someone else close to him. Negan twisting the knife in his "failure" exchange was a nice moment.

NOTE: So Jadis loses the broken, nutjob speech pattern when tragedy occurs.
...and a helipad and solar panels in the back of the junkyard. More than meets the eye with Jadis--besides her disgusting, converted junk grinder. Still, there's no sympathy for one who is a walking class in duplicitous behavior.
 
I thought this was an excellent episode, the best this season so far.

My working theory was that the name cards were the names of the people Carl wrote letters to, but if so why didn't Rick deliver a letter to Jadice?
 
So they kiled ALL the Heapsters? Really? Not one other hid away?

They literally made mincemeat, literallly of the Heapsters.

I have a little sympathy for her. Though i wonder what the whole culture was about? I was thinking this would be the TV version of the WHisperers

I am actually still mourning Gavin...i was holding out hope he would surrender or switch sides.

Oh from last week..how much "prophecy" was Carl's dream? If so -- it looks like Jerry will be around for a while! That makes me happy!

I amwith Corporeal Capiatin -- I was also thinking that is why they had the names....but no?
 
I'm not liking this humanizing of Negan. Like "yeah, Hitler wasn't such a bad guy, he was nice to his mother and he loved dogs." BS. If the only way for humanity to survive is under a brutal dictatorship, perhaps it really is time for it to end.
 
That's the problem with rednecks, they'll take the guns and even the furnishings but they don't see any value in the solar panels.
 
I'm not liking this humanizing of Negan. Like "yeah, Hitler wasn't such a bad guy, he was nice to his mother and he loved dogs." BS. If the only way for humanity to survive is under a brutal dictatorship, perhaps it really is time for it to end.

The episode is not humanizing Negan, as his interest in Carl was not for some greater good, but for his own selfish plotting--essentially trying to turn him into Negan The Second. His remorse over Carl's death centers on that self-serving interest, as he still tries to psychologically stab Rick in the same conversation.

On the subject of Negan seen in a different light, Carl's dream and letter is his idea of redemption, which means Negan himself must end the entire Saviors' organization and belief system. Regarding redemption, either one believes in it or they do not. In reality, there have been countless cases of criminals--some guilty of murder(s)--who turned their lives around (or were guided toward that change), which is one of the purposes of life, unless one believes in a one-way, judge / jury / executioner system. Essentially, a permanent state of condemnation and punishment (if stopping short of killing).

The series has numerous examples of mankind sinking to the worst of his impulses as a means of control, "survival" and/or "defense": The Governor (and his original and 2.0 lackeys), Terminus, Randall's gang, the Claimers, Grady Memorial's police officers, the Wolves, and yes, Rick in a few seasons, hence Carl writing the letter to his father. The running theme is that the judge / jury / executioner approach to life leads to misery or--ultimately--death. Carl, like Hershel, Beth and Tyreese believed in another way

Clearly, none of the named groups ever lived for the right reasons or survived, so what is was the only answer left to them? That's what Carl's is requesting, not living under Negan's dictatorship and pretending its all good. Negan has to seek redemption to live up to Carl's ideas, not the other way around.

That's the problem with rednecks, they'll take the guns and even the furnishings but they don't see any value in the solar panels.

Not sure if you're joking, but if Simon is the one you're referring to as a redneck, he's not supposed to be one. By the way, in my travels in the so-called redneck regions of America, solar paneled homes are everywhere, usually as an alternative to utility companies ripping off the consumer, so some of those rednecks do see the value in solar panels.
 
I am Negan....and I am not pleased with the producers of The Walking Dead right now.

Negan4.jpg


Negan1.jpg


Negan2.jpg


:lol:

Had to get back at 'em for killing off Carl.

But hey, at least we'll always have Carl Poppa:

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Is it wrong that I sometimes notice weird things. Like when Michonne and Rick are leaving their house for the last time I spotted a few fresh tomato's on the table and part of me wanted them to grab them and take them , when they leave. I mean if food is in short supply I wold think people would never abandon food. Every little bit has to help.

Me I also enjoyed the episode. The garbage people dying in a very gross kind of way and Jadis loosing the fake speech stuff. The talk between RIck and Negan at the end. RIck and Michonne's sadness at the beginning. I liked the little touch of RIck not leaving the gun on his sons grave. KInd of like how he didn't want a weapon to soil his resting place, especially since Karl has been wanting people to make peace with each other.

Jason
 
Not sure if you're joking, but if Simon is the one you're referring to as a redneck, he's not supposed to be one. By the way, in my travels in the so-called redneck regions of America, solar paneled homes are everywhere, usually as an alternative to utility companies ripping off the consumer, so some of those rednecks do see the value in solar panels.
It was meant to be a joke, if any group fits in with what one thinks of a redneck it'd be The Saviors. And it doesn't seem to be the liberal folk who seem to go after solar panels and other forms of renewable energy. I'm sure that's not completely fair but my comment was trying (in vain?) to elicit a chuckle not be completely accurate and encompassing.
 
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