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Spoilers Walking Dead Season 8 discussion and spoilers.

^^^ This.

Totally snore-fest. I hate to say, but this show lost me at least a season ago. They could have gone a different direction by having Carl NOT die from the bite, restoring hope to humanity that the apocalypse is over. But, nope. More of the same.
 
I hate to say, but this show lost me at least a season ago. They could have gone a different direction by having Carl NOT die from the bite, restoring hope to humanity that the apocalypse is over. But, nope. More of the same.

The problem with Carl somehow not dying from the bite removes that big threat from the heart of the series; part of the horror of TWD (or most zombie productions for that matter) was not just being eaten alive, but the idea that one bite from the dead condemned you to death/reanimation. What happens to a series (that its producers intend to keep running for some time) if the primary threat is removed? It would only take the road of psychotic enemy more than before, as that would be the only real threat left.
 
A few moments in last night's episode got me very teary eyed...BUT...they dragged on his death-speech WAY too long and it just got a bit too corny in spots. I DID like the "future glimpse" being Carl's vision and not some look into Rick's future. That would have been just too sappy, even for me.

I, too, wish they would give Daryl something to do. He's a great character that really has been sidelined for no reason.
 
I liked the Carol and Gabriel parts, the Carl dying scenes were putting me to sleep. I know it's supposed to be a big deal, him dying (which his comic book counterpart lives) but I just wasn't feelin it for some reason.

From the previews it looks like Simon is wanting a truce of some kind, but Negan isn't having it. The Saviors numbers have to be getting low, it seems Rick and Co. have been putting a hurting on The Saviors and their various strongholds.
 
A few moments in last night's episode got me very teary eyed...BUT...they dragged on his death-speech WAY too long and it just got a bit too corny in spots.

More than Carl's declaration of love for his father, I found his calling Michonne his best friend the saddest part of his last scenes. He looked up to Shane, clearly loved Daryl and was fond of Sophia, but Michonne was all things rolled into one for Carl, which she was well aware of. That's why I suspect she will have the most difficult time moving forward.

I DID like the "future glimpse" being Carl's vision and not some look into Rick's future. That would have been just too sappy, even for me.

It turns out that Carl mirrors the beliefs of Hershel, who, in the flashback scene from "A", (the season 4 finale) told Rick their peaceful farming way of life could always be like that.

I, too, wish they would give Daryl something to do. He's a great character that really has been sidelined for no reason.

On last night's Talking Dead, Greg Nicotero sort of said too much in observing Daryl has not had much to say this season. He's become the equivalent of G.I. Joe's "Snake Eyes" of TWD--more cool because of a look or reputation than actual character with depth. That ship sailed not long after his grief over Beth's death in season 5.

From the previews it looks like Simon is wanting a truce of some kind, but Negan isn't having it.

Oh? From the previews I've watched, Simon seems to be the hothead wanting to kill everyone (recall Negan yelling at him for assuming he could kill more to send a message), while Negan sees people as a "resource"...or slave labor. After all of the carnage, Negan may change his mind--at least where the Rick Team All-Stars are concerned, but i'm not sold that he's itching to slaughter everyone.

I actually think it would've been more powerful had he just died/turned more immediately without full closure.

TWD never lets their most innocent characters turn on camera. Usually, they are either killed in a way preventing reanimation (Beth) or put down before it can happen (Dale, Tyreese or Carl doing it himself). I think the fanbase would have been upset to see Carl actually turn into a walker, even for a moment.
 
Damn that was a looonnngggg and boring death scene. Seriously, if it hadn't been for Carol and Morgan I might have fallen asleep, but even in the Kingdom we just seemed to get a lot of speechifying. Carl's death went on so long it nearly entered parody.

I've stuck with this show a lot, even after Glenn's death, but I think I might be starting to reach the end of my tether. There's nowhere for the show to go unless they radically change things. They can't just keep killing off the hopeful characters, they can't just keep having the same build society/fight evil man and his army/repeat storyline. People say Carl surviving the bite negates the drama, I disagree. First off just because one person survives a bite it doesn't mean everyone will, secondly it provides the possibility of life returning to normal (well as normal as it could do), thirdly it gives you the potential for Carl to become a symbol/Christ like figure, or even a commodity to be fought over (much like sighted people in Day of the Triffids).

I just wish the show would do something radical. Carl could still have died, but not turned. Where are the scientists, the government, where are the nuanced villains who can be bad yet still have a point of view you can empathise with.

Oh and Negan hugging Judith in the fantasy scenes, I nearly laughed which isn't the response they were looking for I guess.
 
I wanted to give it another chance but yeah... I guess I'm out. I often hear people that quit the show say it's because it's too bleak and just a neverending cycle of misery, I suppose that's true, but my problem is that it doesn't make me feel anything, not a single character I give a shit about. I don't care if you kill them all and in a show like this not having characters to care about kinda is a deal breaker, it's not like they are going to develope a plot or something now...

Ok, I did care about one character, it was a CG tiger and they killed it.
 
I stopped watching a few episodes into this new season, the show is a snore fest. i've seen Hugh Grant delivery lines quicker than TWD delivers a compelling episode thats not either the season opener/midseason or season finale.
 
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I wanted to give it another chance but yeah... I guess I'm out. I often hear people that quit the show say it's because it's too bleak and just a neverending cycle of misery, I suppose that's true, but my problem is that it doesn't make me feel anything, not a single character I give a shit about. I don't care if you kill them all and in a show like this not having characters to care about kinda is a deal breaker, it's not like they are going to develope a plot or something now...

Ok, I did care about one character, it was a CG tiger and they killed it.

Yeah Shiva's death hit harder than Carl's!
 
Damn that was a looonnngggg and boring death scene. Seriously, if it hadn't been for Carol and Morgan I might have fallen asleep, but even in the Kingdom we just seemed to get a lot of speechifying. Carl's death went on so long it nearly entered parody.

I'd rather have characters actually being characters, instead of jumping from one action set piece to another with no heart (or other motivations not supporting the story) like most fantasy films and TV series of the day.

I've stuck with this show a lot, even after Glenn's death, but I think I might be starting to reach the end of my tether. There's nowhere for the show to go unless they radically change things. They can't just keep killing off the hopeful characters, they can't just keep having the same build society/fight evil man and his army/repeat storyline.

I've made the same argument--eventually, the hopeful have to be the dominant influence. The problem is modern TV (modern as in the past 30 years) loves (to the point of obsession) to believe dysfunction and brutality = drama. Its overused, and a cheap fallback for bad and/or hive-minded, hack "writers" who have bought into that idea, and cannot think of doing something requiring more normal human behavior. TWD has flip-flopped with writers using that fallback, while others explored characters and growth. The inexplicably maligned season two was one of the best in my view, as it firmly set the course for and really explored the main characters as we would come to know them going forward. The only dysfunction was Shane--and he was treated as an aberration (rightfully so) in normal human relations, not the template for it. That contrast is what makes great drama, not everyone behaving like they're in need of a straight-jacket and anti-looney drugs.

People say Carl surviving the bite negates the drama, I disagree. First off just because one person survives a bite it doesn't mean everyone will, secondly it provides the possibility of life returning to normal (well as normal as it could do)

But that would require an explanation Kirkman absolutely refuses to address or explore.

I just wish the show would do something radical. Carl could still have died, but not turned. Where are the scientists, the government

Remember, there is a large part of TWD's fanbase who support cowardly Kirkman's avoidance / resentment over any story (e.g., season one's great "TS-19" as written by Darabont) attempting to bring scientists (who were working on a cure) into the show. Kirkman runs away from even hinting at what caused the outbreak, suggesting some fear of being criticized for creating a cause that might not hold up to scrutiny...

....but this is fantasy, not a documentary, so a fantasy explanation about an equally fantasy-based disease/affliction that cannot be held to some scientifically plausible explanation is fine. It never stopped George Romero and John Russo from Night of the Living Dead referring to "radiation contamination" from a Venus space probe as the likely cause of corpse reanimation/cannibalism. They rolled with it, and audiences accepted that in-story explanation.

thirdly it gives you the potential for Carl to become a symbol/Christ like figure, or even a commodity to be fought over (much like sighted people in Day of the Triffids).

The series had a few characters either make direct Christian refereces, or refer to it in behavior, but I doubt the current AMC/production staff would have gone in that direction. ...and again, people fighting over Carl for his resistance to the disease would require an explanation Kirkman will never explore/address.

where are the nuanced villains who can be bad yet still have a point of view you can empathise with

To be fair, how many productions have that--particularly the most successful franchises? Look at the MCU--can anyone empathize with Red Skull, Loki (or the rest of Thor's on-screen adversaries), Thanos, or anyone working for Hydra? I'm guessing the answer is no. Can anyone empathize with Star Wars villains such as the Emperor, Darth Maul or even Vader--until his last minute change in Return of the Jedi? The Master from Doctor Who? Any filmed version of the Joker, Lex Luthor or General Zod? Nope.

Oh and Negan hugging Judith in the fantasy scenes, I nearly laughed which isn't the response they were looking for I guess.

It was about Carl leaving the mortal world with a hope for peace--which was understandable, as one of the running messages of certain characters throughout the series (Hershel, Andrea, Dale, et al.) is that wall-to-wall, neverending anger/violence is pointless.
 
[QUOTE="TREK_GOD_1, post: 12380972, member: 5844" ....can anyone empathize with...Loki... Any filmed version of the Lex Luthor...[/QUOTE]

I can, at least with those two, easily.
 
But that would require an explanation Kirkman absolutely refuses to address or explore.

Organisms develop natural immunities to pathogens all the time. To quote the wrong franchise: "Life... finds a way." I think it would completely pump new life into the show. Otherwise, as was noted upthread, we're left with the same tired formula that's been at work since the farm or prison.
 
This episode had zero emotional impact on me. At this point I'm basically only watching the show because my wife loves it and it's sort of a Sunday night ritual for us. I lost all enthusiasm for this show after sitting through the Season 7 opener.
 
In terms of a show that just piles on the misery year after year - did you feel the same when watching Battlestar Galactica?
 
8.28 million for this episode, an uptick from the finale, but only as high as episode 6 from this season. Honestly, the show can fall another 4x and still be a smash hit. Like Rose's heart at the end of Titanic, the Walking dead will go on and onnnnnnnnn.
 
In terms of a show that just piles on the misery year after year - did you feel the same when watching Battlestar Galactica?

I don't necessarily mind the bleakness of the show, but the sheer brutality of the Season 7 opener was what really turned me off. It's one thing to watch zombies get picked off in new and creative ways, but it's quite another to see living, breathing people be bludgeoned to death in graphic detail.
 
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