The funniest thing about the "new Enterprise", is it looks like the rejected Eaves design for the NX-01.
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Why did TOS:R recreate crappy effects?
- Thread starter WarpFactorZ
- Start date
The funniest thing about the "new Enterprise", is it looks like the rejected Eaves design for the NX-01.
I think I've said it else where before, but I think the ratio of success for me for the Remastered VFX is about 60/40. When I first heard about the Remastering project, I was looking forward to it, thinking that the company that was doing "Voyager" and "Enterprise" effects would be doing them. The Defiant in the Mirror Universe episodes of "Enterprise" looked amazing.
Like feek61 said above, some of the original VFX still look amazing. What we now have varies. A lot of the shots in "Corbomite Maneuver" for example, match the originals closely, with the Fesarius improved and now looking amazing and more detailed. But we also have the badly done Klingon D-7 in "Elaan of Troyius", which was terribly done.
By the way, do some people think that some of the live action shots look like they haven't been cleaned up? When I catch an occasional episode these days on TV, there are a few shots that look like they might not have been worked on. Could it be because of original footage done on different film stock?
Like feek61 said above, some of the original VFX still look amazing. What we now have varies. A lot of the shots in "Corbomite Maneuver" for example, match the originals closely, with the Fesarius improved and now looking amazing and more detailed. But we also have the badly done Klingon D-7 in "Elaan of Troyius", which was terribly done.
By the way, do some people think that some of the live action shots look like they haven't been cleaned up? When I catch an occasional episode these days on TV, there are a few shots that look like they might not have been worked on. Could it be because of original footage done on different film stock?
Well, your tone sure spoke otherwise. You started with a condescending line saying I was "babbling." I didn't write anything glaringly wrong, but yes it did require clarification. You didn't ask for it--instead you derided me. Just think about it.I don't have a problem with you, Gary7. What I have a problem with is people writing hyperbole and expecting others to intuit that they don't mean the words they wrote. There's no inflection in ASCII after all.
And, aliensatemybuick...
I read someplace a long time ago when they did the transfers to DVD that some of the original film had deterioration issues and were damaged and 16mm prints were used as a replacement. Seeing some of the episodes on Blu-Ray it certainly appears that some of the grain is reminiscent of what you would expect to see with 16mm verses 35mm.
Unfortunately time is money, which is why it's possible for hobbyists to do a better job than the pros these days. It's not computer power that's the limitation, it's man-hours, as space-shots are not usually that time-consuming compared to other more Avatar-like shots with characters/backgrounds all moving.
The tragedy of the above is when a company is working on something that is literally a piece of Americana. Something like this should have been conducted in a slower and more meticulous manner. When they eventually got around to TNG they seemed to have put a lot more effort into it, but that's kind of apples and oranges because TNG was a remastering of original materials with very limited new digital elements. But from a budgeting/man-hours standpoint, CBS made the investment with TNG and didn't seem to make the same level of investment with TOS.
The end result that is just kind of...ok. The Enterprise typically looks rather flat and low-contrast in most shots. The E in Continues looks far better. The tech was still up to the task to make it like Continues back then. They just didn't pull out all the stops.
With the cost and time constraints, I'm surprised that they did as well as they did, some cartoonish effects shots but the matt "paintings" were just fantastic..some editorial decisions I thought were a bit off, but overall, rather successful, to me the effects, though not seamless, at least tried to be respectful to the originals..But they could have gone all "Special Edition" on them..
and the nerd rage would have been even worse.
and the nerd rage would have been even worse.
Yes, that would explain what I'm seeing then. A pity.
I never heard this about them using 16mm prints in spots. Can anybody find a reference about it? Because I'm surprised.
Only if it makes the transforming noise from Transformers.
All I can really say on old vs new effects is that I prefer the old ones, because I agree with what some others have said - I feel that modern effects don't mesh well with the design aesthetic of the live action. In my own mind, I have a hard time discerning whether that feeling is because I watched re-runs and dvds for 20 years with the original effects, so my brain is screaming " this is wrong" or if it truly is the clash I perceive.
It's probably a little bit of both. With respect to the shuttlecraft specifically, it's hard for me to believe that the CGI shuttle is the same shuttle we see the actors walk out of on the planet. The color and texture are simply radically different. While there is some difference between the miniature and the full size mock-up, it seems like far less of a jump - to me.
With respect to the Enterprise herself, it's probably just a matter of familiarity with the old model.
In the end, I don't worry about it because it doesn't matter. I won't say that the original effects are better, but I can say I prefer them, and so that's how I'll consume the show if given the option.
If they had to monkey with the effects, I'd have preferred they had simply tried to match the effects shot for shot as closely as possible to the original - just make the film grain, etc match the rest of the live action stock. The only real disappointment I have with the original effects is the side effects of the optical printing process that made the model shots look much dirtier/scratched than the rest of the episode sometimes.
It's probably a little bit of both. With respect to the shuttlecraft specifically, it's hard for me to believe that the CGI shuttle is the same shuttle we see the actors walk out of on the planet. The color and texture are simply radically different. While there is some difference between the miniature and the full size mock-up, it seems like far less of a jump - to me.
With respect to the Enterprise herself, it's probably just a matter of familiarity with the old model.
In the end, I don't worry about it because it doesn't matter. I won't say that the original effects are better, but I can say I prefer them, and so that's how I'll consume the show if given the option.
If they had to monkey with the effects, I'd have preferred they had simply tried to match the effects shot for shot as closely as possible to the original - just make the film grain, etc match the rest of the live action stock. The only real disappointment I have with the original effects is the side effects of the optical printing process that made the model shots look much dirtier/scratched than the rest of the episode sometimes.
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I feel this is a bit of moving the goalposts. If I could go buy the original Star Wars and it was preserved and protected I would not then say "Ah, but the Disney streaming service is only showing the Special Editions! So it doesn't count!"
In the case of Star Trek I can buy (and have bought) wonderful HD editions of the original shows (with the occasional glitch). Just because that's not what's on Netflix (or CBS?) doesn't mean they're gone.
Amazon Prime offers the originals in SD, btw.
I wonder if we'll ever get re-remastered Star Trek, and if so will there be people saying that the 2006 editions are not being adequately preserved?
Yes, but it really is the same ship. I'm not super crazy about the aesthetics but I'll never say "That's not the Enterprise." Hell, I remember when you first see her in Into Darkness. After four years of bitching about the JJ-Prise, the first time you see her my heart caught in my throat. Because she's still the Enterprise. She's a beautiful lady and we love her.
Young minds, fresh ideas. Be tolerant.
Oh, on the subject of the thread: There are many new effect in TOS-R that I considered "definitive". None of them involved the Enterprise. Devil in the Dark and Court Martial / The Menagerie have some of my favorites.
And as much as I adore the TMP warp effect (never matched, IMHO) I would have spit if they had added it to TOS-R.
Star Trek: Continues was made ten years after TOS-R and with a MUCH more open schedule (even if it had no budget). It's comparing oranges to kaferian apples.
I'm kind of surprised that we haven't gotten more fan "special-er" editions.
Ah. Sorry.
What they failed to do (IMHO) in TOS-R was to match the aesthetic. I think you can still do stuff that would have been impossible or at least prohibitively expensive but make it look like it matches the rest of the show. That's probably why the FX that they had to mix with live action tended to me more successful and satisfying.
And of course while some in this thread have held it up as an example of how remastered "shoulda been done", there are others who savagely criticize the FX work on STC; Trek fans truly exemplify the saying "the key to failure is trying to please everyone".
The aesthetic is what bothers me the most. The TOS-R ship shots don't feel like part of the show. And that's mostly about the lighting and rendering choices.
As someone who's worked as a producer had I been given the job Okuda had I'd have focused on getting all the library shots first and in as high quality as the schedule/budget would permit, and then everything above and beyond that would be gravy. Put lots of effort on the Klingon ship, and wouldn't have wasted a mesh on a Gorn ship that never appears as more than a speck when the same thing could have been accomplished in <15 minutes as a painted still. Etc. etc.
EdenFX did, in fact, put in a bid, and their demo video looks like they would've gone a lot more towards the "precisely recreate what was there in higher resolution" approach of TNG-R's rare CG shots than TOS-R's "let's have some wacky fun with space" approach. Granted, there were some scenes in TOS that could use some wacky fun, and I love the TOS-R matte paintings, but I think more restraint might've been preferable for an archival project like that.
I've only just realised that Netflix has the original version of Obsession rather than the new effects episode!
It's true that the Elaan of Troyius Klingon cruiser isn't a patch on the original 'ghost' that follows The Enterprise! Neither is the Day of The Dove new version any better!
JB
It's true that the Elaan of Troyius Klingon cruiser isn't a patch on the original 'ghost' that follows The Enterprise! Neither is the Day of The Dove new version any better!
JB
Yep. And soon enough these hacks will be congratulating one another on Twitter about how brilliant their version is.
It's what they do.
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