Why did TOS:R recreate crappy effects?

[Gary7]

Consistency was the problem with TOS. There were plenty of shots where the Enterprise could've been digitally enhanced from original frames and look terrific. The trouble was that those scenes where the ship was bobbing back and forth like on a wire (utterly ridiculous, even for the day) would need to be completely recreated with more appropriate ship movement. And because of how far CGI had progressed at that point, the stark difference from the remastered digitally enhanced ship scenes would look terribly inconsistent. So, they had to do full CGI. Thankfully as the seasons progressed, CGI tech improved. The later episodes looked pretty good... although today, the fan made digital recreations look even better!

What really bugged me to no end, is how the scenes with overlays weren't cleaned up. You'd see black specs all over the place. And they're extremely noticeable in every episode credits reel. Just baffles me as to why they didn't fix it. Seems like at least the most notable specs could've been dealt with. Sticks out like a sore thumb.

 

[Gary7]

I can see a future generation of filmmakers borrowing the original E from the Smithsonian to shoot stock footage for a throwback version of Trek. All new, but all the same. New recreations of the original sets with a budget big enough to make it convincingly real, state of the art SFX, and casting and scripts to make a new version of TOS that will please even the most hardcore fan.

Then again, it might just be a parallel universe in a snow globe.

A digital model will be much easier to work with and ultimately less expensive... without any risk to mobilizing a super expensive original model!

 

[XCV330]

I can see a future generation of filmmakers borrowing the original E from the Smithsonian to shoot stock footage for a throwback version of Trek. All new, but all the same. New recreations of the original sets with a budget big enough to make it convincingly real, state of the art SFX, and casting and scripts to make a new version of TOS that will please even the most hardcore fan.

Then again, it might just be a parallel universe in a snow globe.

I thought Vic Mignogna already did that.

 

[Maurice]

....The trouble was that those scenes where the ship was bobbing back and forth on a wire (utterly ridiculous, even for the day) would need to be completely recreated.

The 11' Enterprise was never on a wire outside of the opening shot of the first pilot and its various reuses, so what are you babbling about? The times they "shook" the model in the optical printer?

 

[Gary7]

^ what am I babbling about? There's no need to be insulting here. I meant to say "like" on a wire. Because of filming constraints there were a number of cases where the Enterprise just looked wrong, relative to what was happening to the bridge crew. And in the remastering, the CGI replacement corrected a lot of that.

 

[Maurice]

"...scenes where the ship was bobbing back and forth on a wire (utterly ridiculous, even for the day)"
^^^
Sorry, but how is anyone supposed to grok your now-claimed meaning from that?

 

[F. King Daniel]

TOS-R should have taken the best CGI they could muster and recreated the original shots as perfectly as possible, as Star Trek Continues did so successfully.

I used to kinda want an all-out George Lucas on PCP visual update, but we got that on Discovery and it's confirmed for me that fooling with the classics is not the way to go...

Spoiler

It's fine for it's pseudo-prequel universe, but I definitely don't want to see that spliced with TOS live action.

 

[Jedman67]

A digital model will be much easier to work with and ultimately less expensive... without any risk to mobilizing a super expensive original model!

More likely, a new physical model would be built to match the dimensions and appearances of the original. There is currently a fan film (cant remember the name) that is (planning?) doing that.

 

[Gary7]

"...scenes where the ship was bobbing back and forth on a wire (utterly ridiculous, even for the day)"
^^^
Sorry, but how is anyone supposed to grok your now-claimed meaning from that?

I don't know what your problem is. Did we cross swords somewhere in the past?
Go back to the original effects. There are episodes where the Enterprise is experiencing a shockwave or some other force and the "optical printer" shake is a back and forth tilt that practically looks like it's bobbing on a wire. Doesn't matter if it was a wire or not, it's the impression of it. And it wasn't desirable, because it's not how a ship would behave in space. That's why the CGI replacement did away with it.

 

[BillJ]

The trouble was that those scenes where the ship was bobbing back and forth like on a wire (utterly ridiculous, even for the day) would need to be completely recreated with more appropriate ship movement.

Why? The effects were simply great. But, they are a product of their time. Why is everyone insistent on stripping Star Trek of all the things that make it "Star Trek"?

 

[feek61]

Personally, I think a good number of the original effects shots look amazing; even today. How can you improve on shots like this?

 

[BillJ]

Personally, I think a good number of the original effects shots look amazing; even today. How can you improve on shots like this?

OHMYGOOOOOOOOODDDDDD!!! YOU CAN SEE TEH STRINGS!!! JUST A PLATE AND SOME TUBES!!! NOT MODEEEEEEERRRRRRRNN!!!

 

[Gary7]

Why? The effects were simply great. But, they are a product of their time. Why is everyone insistent on stripping Star Trek of all the things that make it "Star Trek"?

Don't get me wrong. A majority of the SFX in TOS were really very, very good for their day! And many still hold up pretty well today. But there were some places where budget constraints severely cramped their ability to properly represent a starship scene. And they went for the cheap shot, like a starship rocking back and forth. And it's fine to keep that for the old original effects track. But for the new... why not put in what could have been? And they did that for the CGI remastering. All I was saying is how great it would've been if they'd digitally cleaned up the footage on the model, rather than using CGI... and for those deficient scenes, replace it with revised model filming.

 

[feek61]

To me some of the limitations actually enhanced the effects. For example, they could not show the ships doing barrel rolls and other quick maneuvers such as the remaster effects and new movies do; they appeared to have mass and moved more in a majestic fashion like a large ship would. Seems much more realistic then the remastered effects and the movies out today. I equate it to an aircraft carrier making sharp turns like a cabin cruiser; it just doesn't happen that way.



Even though you CAN (literally) see the strings; I have always loved this shot of the Galileo which IMHO still (even with strings) looks much better than the remastered version.





Verses this:

 

[uniderth]

OHMYGOOOOOOOOODDDDDD!!! YOU CAN SEE TEH STRINGS!!! JUST A PLATE AND SOME TUBES!!! NOT MODEEEEEEERRRRRRRNN!!!

The sets are card board. 'Muh greeblies!

Don't get me wrong. A majority of the SFX in TOS were really very, very good for their day! And many still hold up pretty well today. But there were some places where budget constraints severely cramped their ability to properly represent a starship scene. And they went for the cheap shot, like a starship rocking back and forth. And it's fine to keep that for the old original effects track. But for the new... why not put in what could have been? And they did that for the CGI remastering. All I was saying is how great it would've been if they'd digitally cleaned up the footage on the model, rather than using CGI... and for those deficient scenes, replace it with revised model filming.

This would have been immensely preferable to TOS-R. However, I think the objective should have been to preserve the show as it was made, not as we would prefer it to be. Yes, that means that there will be times when the fact that it's a show comes through on the screen. But that's just what it is.

 

[Gary7]

^ I agree. The CGI Galileo looked awful. Especially the exaggerated drifting that was introduced when it left the shuttle bay. But most of all, changing it to gray and eliminating the lit windows with black surrounds completely "flattened" the look of it.

 

[alensatemybuick1]

Boy this thread went downhill fast (esp. in terms of the attitude displayed by one "premium" member). But it does show the range of opinions on what "shoulda woulda coulda" been done. As pointed out, the original composted effects were too grainy to match the remastered live action scenes, and the original film elements were not available for remastering. SOME such elements have since been discovered, but not enough to re-do all the effects. So they did what they could within the boundaries of the time and budget provided at the time, and some of the results were, well, crappy. Kinda like the original FX. I give those who did the remastering work a buy.

Any purist who must see the original effects can still do so via a host of options (such as selecting "Star Trek: The Original Series" on CBS All Access using an Amazon Firestick for example). Or pop in a DVD or Blueray disc. But if you are watching Trek on broadcast TV (MeTV for example), the show has already been butchered to increase commercial time...so maybe STFU about it already?

 

[uniderth]

...so maybe STFU about it already?

Star Trek Fan Universe?

 

[Poltargyst]

To me some of the limitations actually enhanced the effects. For example, they could not show the ships doing barrel rolls and other quick maneuvers such as the remaster effects and new movies do; they appeared to have mass and moved more in a majestic fashion like a large ship would. Seems much more realistic then the remastered effects and the movies out today. I equate it to an aircraft carrier making sharp turns like a cabin cruiser; it just doesn't happen that way.



Even though you CAN (literally) see the strings; I have always loved this shot of the Galileo which IMHO still (even with strings) looks much better than the remastered version.





Verses this:

CGI often looks like cartoons to me. With a model, you can tell there's actually something physical there.

 

[Maurice]

I don't have a problem with you, Gary7. What I have a problem with is people writing hyperbole and expecting others to intuit that they don't mean the words they wrote. There's no inflection in ASCII after all.

And, aliensatemybuick...