Spoilers Wonder Woman - Grading & Discussion

[Gaith]

I didn't reduce the grade because of it but I just thought it totally ridiculous that Zeus and that whole pantheon of gods was introduced just to have killed them all off as backstory, couldn't they have thought of something better?

One pagan Devil, complete with random vision of the Garden of Eden at the end, a studio can get away with. But portray the Olympian gods as living into the present day in a movie aimed at kids, and you risk monotheists marching with pitchforks. (Also, does that mean Superman would hobnob with the likes of Artemis and Hermes? Nah, better shoo those Olympians outta here, they're more trouble than they're worth.)

I also wonder about the whole scene where the German's attacked the island. First, there seemed to be no kind of establishment for the need for hostilities. Do German sailors routinely shoot at strange women on sight?

Because Nazis, mmmkay?

 

[dahj]

Incredible film. I absolutely loved it.

 

[Anwar]

As long as she remained unaware of her "Deus Ex Machina", Wonder Woman was in trouble with Ares. And "Wonder Woman" is not the only fictional work - good or bad - that possessed a "deus ex machina".

Doesn't matter, we're talking about WW and only WW. Ending a fight easily with random Deus Ex Machina powers is just lazy writing.

ESPECIALLY if you don't bother bringing back those powers when she needs them again, like in JL!

 

[M'rk son of Mogh]

Doesn't matter, we're talking about WW and only WW. Ending a fight easily with random Deus Ex Machina powers is just lazy writing.

Is there such thing as "random deus ex machina" (I think that's an oxymoron to start with) when we're telling a story about gods and their offspring?

The term applies to mortals. Daughter of the king of gods is basically just being redundant when throwing that term around pretending it's a criticism. In this case, it's the whole point of the story, and we were reminded of it at multiple intervals in the film. Bringing up anything to the contrary is just lazy criticism.

 

[Set Harth]

But portray the Olympian gods as living into the present day in a movie aimed at kids, and you risk monotheists marching with pitchforks.

The Norse gods being in the present day in the Marvel films doesn't seem to have caused too much marching.

 

[Gaith]

The Norse gods being in the present day in the Marvel films doesn't seem to have caused too much marching.

1) Notice how often said aliens clarify that they aren't actually gods, how they aren't shown to have had anything to do with creating Earth/humanity, and how their aesthetic is as much sci-fi as mythological.
2) Norse culture isn't considered as foundational to modern Western civilization as Greco-Roman culture is, so their inclusion is less awkward.
3) Just because Marvel Studios pulled it off doesn't mean WB wasn't afraid of doing something similar and failing. See: how both Marvel and WB went cosmic in 2011, with Thor and Green Lantern, and how the latter worked out for WB.

 

[dahj]

Or, y'know, maybe the story just takes place in a world where the Greek gods are dead.

Like, people have been rummaging around Mt Olympus for days and they're not there, so either they're godlike in playing hide n'seek, or they're dead...

 

[Anwar]

Is there such thing as "random deus ex machina" (I think that's an oxymoron to start with) when we're telling a story about gods and their offspring?

There is when it utterly demolishes the ending.

 

[Kai "the spy"]

Do you even know what "Deus ex Machina" translates to?

 

[1001001]

Isn't that a light chicken gravy?

 

[Anwar]

Do you even know what "Deus ex Machina" translates to?

God from the Machine, yes.

I'm fully aware that WW is a story about Gods and stuff related to that. But that does NOT mean I think having Diana pull all kinds of powers that she NEVER USED AGAIN for her one fight with Ares because the writers were too lazy to think of any other way to end the fight, was in any way enjoyable.

 

[crookeddy]

God from the Machine, yes.

I'm fully aware that WW is a story about Gods and stuff related to that. But that does NOT mean I think having Diana pull all kinds of powers that she NEVER USED AGAIN for her one fight with Ares because the writers were too lazy to think of any other way to end the fight, was in any way enjoyable.

She was literally made to fight this one guy. Kind of makes sense that she'd have access to some powers only when fighting him. A bit of a lazy narrative technique, but not a major plot hole. You can look at it this way - the movie is really about her road to get to Ares. The fight itself is just something they tacked on.

 

[Anwar]

She was literally made to fight this one guy. Kind of makes sense that she'd have access to some powers only when fighting him. A bit of a lazy narrative technique, but not a major plot hole. You can look at it this way - the movie is really about her road to get to Ares. The fight itself is just something they tacked on.

If she used those same powers against Doomsday and Steppenwolf, it wouldn't be so bad.

 

[crookeddy]

She wasn't created to fight them so she doesn't get to access magical cheat codes.

 

[Tosk]

Maybe Ares is AC and Doomsday was DC?

 

[Anwar]

She wasn't created to fight them so she doesn't get to access magical cheat codes.

Cop out. Steppenwolf is a "God" of Apokolips after all.

 

[Kai "the spy"]

Cop out. Steppenwolf is a "God" of Apokolips after all.

New God, mind you. And the whole mythology of the New Gods is based on them having gotten their power by the death of the Old Gods (who are not the same as the Olympian Gods, btw). In the comics, Darkseid was even recently ressurrected and brought to full power again by the killing of most of Zeus' children left on Earth. Also, in the 1980s, Darkseid's threat to invade Olympus had the Olympian Gods fleeing. All this suggests that the major players among the New Gods are more powerful than the Olympian Gods. Which is also true for the DCEU, as we've seen the Olympian Gods having to partner up with humans, Amazons, Atlanteans and Green Lanterns to beat Steppenwolf and his army the first time around.

So, no, the powers she had at her disposal against Ares, even if she had still had access to them, would not have been enough to beat Steppenwolf.

But, please, go one coming up with new variations of the same basic criticism. It's certainly better than just accepting that other people like other movies than you and moving on.

 

[Marsden]

One pagan Devil, complete with random vision of the Garden of Eden at the end, a studio can get away with. But portray the Olympian gods as living into the present day in a movie aimed at kids, and you risk monotheists marching with pitchforks. (Also, does that mean Superman would hobnob with the likes of Artemis and Hermes? Nah, better shoo those Olympians outta here, they're more trouble than they're worth.)

Because Nazis, mmmkay?

I don't know who are these people you're speaking about, but if there were such a group I think they'd be even more pissed that Zeus created mankind, which was included in that whole dump in the beginning of the movie. I missed the marching pitchforks for that.

 

[Anwar]

So, no, the powers she had at her disposal against Ares, even if she had still had access to them, would not have been enough to beat Steppenwolf.

Would've been nice for her to at least TRY to use them and have them fail, rather than the nerfing she got overall in that flick.

 

[M'rk son of Mogh]

Would've been nice for her to at least TRY to use them and have them fail, rather than the nerfing she got overall in that flick.

Why isn't her movie in the right and the other 2 crappy movies in the wrong?
You're judging her solo movie based on 2 crappy tie-ins, one of which only had her in it for 10 minutes. That's like saying Ant-Man was awful because he turned giant in Civil War.