Should Beverly Really Be A Starship Captain?

[Mojochi]

I'm not saying she lacks the expertise to do so, as the Pasteur is a medical vessel, & she'd once headed Starfleet Medical. I'm suggesting she lacks the necessary perspective to do so

Personally, I think her priorities are so misaligned, I wonder why she bothers to be in Starfleet at all, least of all on long term, deep space assignment, with a crew to look after, & the interests of Starfleet. I'm not even convinced she truly respects that anyone has authority over her. Recognizes? Sure. Respects? I doubt it. She forces a situation at the beginning of The High Ground, & then again at the onset of I Borg. She endangers herself & her crew, & maybe all of Starfleet, because of her idea of what the right thing to do it is

IMHO, she's even in the wrong about trying to block Worf's choice to pursue another doctor's experimental recommendation, which isn't really her choice to make. So what matters more there, the patient's wishes, or the doctor's opinion? I don't think she's ever fessed up to the possibility that someone else might be more right than her

It's a wonder that Suspicions was the 1st & only time that her unwillingness to be subordinate catches up with her. Honestly, even though she is vindicated in that episode, I never felt bad for her, for an instant. I just kept thinking "chickens come home to roost much?"

Seeing how most of her other episodes are fluff pieces about trysts, outside of mom stuff, these few instances sort of define her character, & it doesn't paint a very flattering picture, imho. It certainly doesn't paint her as someone that could take on the enormous responsibility of safeguarding hundreds or more lives under her command, & the interests of the Federation. She would need a MAJOR shift in attitude to make that leap, if you ask me.

 

[marlboro]

It's Star Trek - captaincies are handed out like participation trophies.

 

[JirinPanthosa]

She showed her command prowess in Descent.

25 years passes between the end of TNG and the future era in All Good Things, a lot may have changed. And from what we know of Starfleet they see insubordination as a command quality. It worked for Picard and Kirk, at least.

We see from many episodes. If you quietly do your job, Starfleet likes you but thinks you're kinda lame. If you violate orders and kinda do your own thing, Starfleet promotes you.

Somebody should tell that to Harry Kim.

 

[Bry_Sinclair]

Crusher is a doctor first and foremost, so in "The High Ground" after the explosion and the numerous injured she isn't about to turn her back on them, like many first responders to emergencies and serious incidents who risk their lives to help save others. As for "I, Borg" though never stated outright the opportunity to study the Borg would be something that couldn't be ignored.

With Worf and his injury, she was his doctor with a (understandable) concern over an untested and untried medical procedure being offered up to a patient with suicidal thoughts as a 'miracle cure'.

In "Suspicions" I can see what you're getting at, going against cultural customs because of her opinion that she was right, but then again every Trek character can be guilty of arrogance on occasion, but at least she gave Starfleet a fancy new technology to use later.

She's someone who has passed the bridge officers test and earned her rank, directed Starfleet Medical for a year, overseen medical emergencies and humanitarian support, supervised shifts of the Federation Flagship, assumed command in a very dangerous situation and shown sound tactical thinking, whilst her main drive is about saving lives regardless of who they are (which fits in with Starfleet's directives to seek out new life and civilisations) which would also go a long way to helping build bridges between other species, when a Starfleet officer puts aside the politics and history and helps an individual who needs it.

She may not be commanding a capital ship but she would definitely deserve her shot at the centre seat one day.

 

[C.E. Evans]

We've seen some officers change career paths. Spock was captain of the Enterprise during her time as a training vessel; Sisko apparently started off as an engineer; and Janeway was initially a science officer before she made the switch to command. By the time of "All Good Things...", Beverly may have been a command division officer for quite a while, IMO. She may even have been first officer of a ship for a time before getting her captain's pips.

 

[Nyotarules]

She showed her command prowess in Descent.

25 years passes between the end of TNG and the future era in All Good Things, a lot may have changed. And from what we know of Starfleet they see insubordination as a command quality. It worked for Picard and Kirk, at least.

We see from many episodes. If you quietly do your job, Starfleet likes you but thinks you're kinda lame. If you violate orders and kinda do your own thing, Starfleet promotes you.

Somebody should tell that to Harry Kim.

Since Starfleet is meant to be a multispecies organisation I blame this on the Tellarite influence.

Sometime in the 22nd century
Tellar - We will only join if you amend some of your silly human rules on insubordination
Earth - sigh ... alrighty then
Andor - We will only join if you amend some of your silly human rules on fraternisation
Earth - sigh...alrighty then
Vulcan - We won't join at all
Earth - Thank the heavens!

 

[Mojochi]

She showed her command prowess in Descent.

And I do recognize that. I'm not questioning her aptitude or skill at potentially commanding, & there's no doubt she's qualified to change career tracks. I'm questioning her motives, & whether someone with such tunnel vision about what's right, can truly be qualified to command.

Crusher is a doctor first and foremost

and that's the problem.
"It may turn out that the moral thing to do... was not the right thing to do." ... Picard, Descent. Saving a Borg from a crash site (Her call) has the potential to risk the lives of everyone in the entire Federation. That's some major mental blockage for a person who ends up a captain. Everything that happens after that is on her, because she didn't leave the crash site when ordered to

One cannot be a uniformed leader in an institution if there is some other principle they are beholden to, more than that of their chain of command, like the Hippocratic oath for example. She isn't just a doctor. She's a Starfleet officer... doctor, which is essentially the same as being a military doctor, & sometimes you get told to not render aid to the enemy

 

[Herbert]

IMHO, she's even in the wrong about trying to block Worf's choice to pursue another doctor's experimental recommendation, which isn't really her choice to make. So what matters more there, the patient's wishes, or the doctor's opinion? I don't think she's ever fessed up to the possibility that someone else might be more right than her

Do you really think the other doctor was more in the right here? She confessed to experimenting on live patients in attempts to prove her theories. Some of which died as a result. She may not have been Dr Mengele but she sure didn't follow the Hypocratic Oath. The other doctor (can't remember her name right now) should have been barred from practicing medicine. She was not responsible.

Having said that, Crusher definitely let her "do no harm" blind her to what Worf wanted. It took Picard to convince her of that, and then only under extreme reluctance. Actually, both Worf and Crusher were quite obstinate.

 

[Bry_Sinclair]

I'm questioning her motives, & whether someone with such tunnel vision about what's right, can truly be qualified to command.

What about Sisko doing all that was 'necessary' to have the Romulans join the war, Janeway going after the Equinox regardless, or Picard solely out for revenge against the Borg in First Contact.

Before being promoted to Captain of a starship she'd be evaluated and assessed to see if she had the correct mentality and mindset. Its not like Starfleet just promotes anyone up into the big chair.

 

[Brennyren]

Well, I think it makes a difference that she's in charge of a medical vessel, which would presumably be primarily dedicated to medical rescue and assistance. Much of her job in that command would involve making medical decisions, for which she's well-qualified. I was a little surprised, however, that she didn't appear to have anyone on her staff who primarily specialized in things like strategy and tactics, on the theory that no matter what your stated mission is, sometimes stuff just happens. But I've often felt that TNG really doesn't think strategy and tactics are a specialized discipline. For example:

She showed her command prowess in Descent.

True enough, but she should never have been in command in "Descent." You're in the middle of Borg space, your second officer is missing and has been compromised, and you leave your CMO in command so that your captain and your first officer can beam down to the planet and -- wave tricorders? Luckily, the Awesome New Thing Beverly learned about in "Suspicions" turned out to be exactly the Awesome New Thing needed to save the day. Blind coincidence FTW.

 

[marlboro]

What about Sisko doing all that was 'necessary' to have the Romulans join the war, Janeway going after the Equinox regardless, or Picard solely out for revenge against the Borg in First Contact.

I think it means that they are ready to be promoted to Bad Admiral status.

 

[Mojochi]

Do you really think the other doctor was more in the right here?

No, I think Worf was in the right, to do whatever he wanted, with the medical options available, risky, experimental, or otherwise, & she's got no place trying to stop him

What about Sisko doing all that was 'necessary' to have the Romulans join the war, Janeway going after the Equinox regardless, or Picard solely out for revenge against the Borg in First Contact.

I think Picard was literally under alien influence, & trying to stop a mortal threat he'd let slip though his grasp once already with Hugh. It's debatable whether he was fit to continue command after what the Borg did to him, yes.

Sisko is also doing wrong to save lives, but that's my point. Crusher is doing the opposite, endangering lives by being more doctor than officer. She's a bleeding heart they promoted to captain

Janeway is just a crappy captain lol

 

[matthunter]

One cannot be a uniformed leader in an institution if there is some other principle they are beholden to, more than that of their chain of command, like the Hippocratic oath for example. She isn't just a doctor. She's a Starfleet officer... doctor, which is essentially the same as being a military doctor, & sometimes you get told to not render aid to the enemy

In the modern military, such an order would be illegal under the Geneva Convention.

In fact, ALL soldiers are taught to respect the chain of command UP TO the point it conflicts with the law, so there ARE other principles military personnel must be beholden to.

 

[F. King Daniel]

GOD NO.

She really isn't up to being a Doctor either.

 

[Mojochi]

In the modern military, such an order would be illegal under the Geneva Convention.

In fact, ALL soldiers are taught to respect the chain of command UP TO the point it conflicts with the law, so there ARE other principles military personnel must be beholden to.

Assuming the Geneva convention applies. I'm not talking about an unethical order here. If your doctor endangers their own people by going out into the field and lending aid to an enemy, and in doing so is jeopardizing countless more lives, then telling them to NOT do so & expecting them to follow that order IS ethical. Life is not black & white, good vs bad. Ordering an ugly thing to prevent worse things from happening is always a possibility

 

[MAGolding]

As for Dr. Crusher being qualified to be a captain.

"The Child":

PICARD: Mixed feelings for all of us. It's always difficult leaving any ship, just as it was for your mother

[Corridor]

PICARD: When she left to become head of Starfleet Medical. But going from one assignment to another is part of the life which you are choosing.

And:

PICARD: Well, Mister Crusher, communicate with your mother at Starfleet Medical headquarters. Give her my regards, and tell her you have my permission to remain on the Enterprise, but I will abide by her wishes.

"Evolution":

CRUSHER: Well, it's nice to be together again. I was at Starfleet Medical for a year. I missed about two inches of him.

Note that Starfleet Medical is not qualified in any way with other nouns or with adjectives. Thus it seems likely that Dr. Crusher became head of all of Starfleet Medical, that is the medical branch of Starfleet.

In "Encounter At Farpoint":

WORF: Commander Data is on special assignment, sir. He's using our shuttlecraft to transfer an admiral over to the Hood.
RIKER: An admiral?
WORF: He's been aboard all day, sir, checking over medical layout.
RIKER: Why a shuttlecraft? Why wouldn't he just beam over?
WORF: I suppose he could, sir, but the Admiral's a rather remarkable man.

MCCOY: Troubles me? What's so damned troubling about not having died? How old do you think I am?
DATA: One hundred thirty seven years, Admiral, according to Starfleet records.

So Dr. McCoy is an Starfleet admiral concerned with medical matters. That sure sounds like he is an admiral in Starfleet Medical. So it is possible to be an admiral in Starfleet Medical.

It certainly seems to me that Starfleet Medical would be an important branch of Starfleet, a branch important enough that the head of it would always be a staff admiral.

Thus Commander Beverly Crusher was apparently a temporary admiral (grade unspecified) while the head of Starfleet Medical, (and possibly McCoy's boss) and would probably have become a permanent admiral if she served as head of Starfleet Medical for a few more years.

Beverly Crusher seems to have taken the bridge officer's test sometime before "Encounter at Farpoint", since that is said to be the method for staff officers to become promoted to commander and to become eligible to command on the bridge. She was commanded watches on the bridge from time to time and was put in command of the Enterprise by Captain Picard in "Descent" while Picard, Riker, and Data were off the ship (even though that seems like a silly decision by Picard, it happened and Crusher did well while in command). And she has probably been a temporary staff admiral while head of Starfleet Medical for a year.

So it seems likely that by the time of the last TNG movie Nemesis Crusher was already more than qualified to be promoted one step to captain. And though Majochi may think that Crusher has behaved badly, possibly she had behaved in a fitting enough manner for a long enough time that the powers that be decided she had matured out of her rebellious phase by the time she was promoted to captain and put in command of a medical ship.

And I remind Majochi that in the 19th century United States Army (the regular army) promotion was by seniority within the regiment up to the rank of Captain and by seniority within the branch up to the rank of colonel, with promotions to general decided by the president. It is certainly possible that Starfleet might have some sort of seniority rule that might make a commander like Crusher automatically promoted to captain after achieving c enough points, no matter how nutty the promotion board though she was.

 

[Mojochi]

I never said she didn't have the qualifications to be a captain. I'm asking if she is the type of person who is capable of that kind of command over people in dangerous situations, with whole civilizations depending on her choices to use force when necessary, or more to the point, refrain from acting on compassion alone, the kind of compassion that on numerous occasions has dictated how she behaved as a subordinate officer, practicing medicine

Just because I have the proper qualifications to be a police officer, doesn't mean I have the right temperament or the appropriate character to be one... and if such is the case, I shouldn't be one. Being a good doctor isn't the necessary prerequisite for being a good captain. They are weighed on an entirely different metric

 

[Bry_Sinclair]

Do you have the same concerns about the EMH/ECH?

Not only was his primary function solely that of a doctor, but also disobeyed orders of superiors not to mention did things that was only for the stoking of his own ego and yet had more opportunities in the captain's chair than Crusher did.

 

[marlboro]

I have a hard time believing that anyone could uphold the oaths they took when they became doctors while making the tough decisions that come along with being a captain. Kirk vs McCoy at the end of City on the Edge of Forever, for example.

The ECH: look at what happened to the doctor in Latent Image. No reason for the ECH to kick in unless there is absolutely no one even remotely qualified to make a decision.

 

[Mojochi]

Do you have the same concerns about the EMH/ECH?

Yeah... I don't think he should be given command of his own ship either.

I have a hard time believing that anyone could uphold the oaths they took when they became doctors while making the tough decisions that come along with being a captain. Kirk vs McCoy at the end of City on the Edge of Forever, for example.

That's a fair point. In the most fundamental ways, the ideals of being a doctor would come in direct conflict with those of a command officer, tasked with things like defense, & military counterstrategy/brinkmanship. Whatever you want to call it... the greater good, the needs of the many... Kobayashi Maru. Sometimes, letting someone die is the right decision. I do however think there probably are doctors who are capable of making that distinction, when necessary, meaning they might be a little more apt for captaincy than her.

Maybe I'm being a little hard on Bev, singling her out specifically (She does kind of rub it in everyone's faces a lot) but it's also true that I'd never seen them give a ship to a doctor before. It just doesn't sit well with me, especially in her case, when we've seen how difficult about it she can deliberately be. Hell, in The High Ground, they have Will sounding like he & Picard should be the ones who ought to be intimidated by HER.

"I wouldn't want to be in the transporter room to greet her"? WHY? because she might reprimand her senior officers? Screw her. Put it in a log & file it under "No one has to give a crap", but that's just me lol

In fact, I'm reminded of a flashback scene in LOST where Dr. Jack has to make a decision between saving one person's life over another's, based on who's survivability rate is higher. It's not like doctors are unfamiliar with that particular territory