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Fan Works, Copyright and Fair Use

The whole system needs a revisit, sure, but the oft-mentioned deep-pocketed corporate interests are going to make changing the rules to something sensible a steep uphill climb. Still, if you want the rules to change, then Urbandefault is right on this count: you can either try to do something about it, as tough as that will be, or shout into the wind. Civil disobedience? Fine, Donker, YOU want change so badly, you take point. Thus far, none of the actual fan filmmakers posting here are stamping their little feet about this, so it seems it's some—frankly—entitled fans of said works with no skin in the game that are demanding this.
The whole system needs a revisiting and yet no one wants to revisit it. It is a ridiculous assertion that copyright is unfairly built towards corporations, yet will not lift a finger to put forth effort to change it. Imagine the petitioning resources that could go in to trying to raise support to revisit copyright law that has been put in to petitioning about Star Wars: The Last Jedi, or crowdfunding for Axanar.
 
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Another example of how a 7 year copyright would fuck over people.

Broadway shows. It takes YEARS for a show to be profitable. Wicked for example became profitable in year 8.

How could they if it became public domain in year 7?
 
Hey, if you don't like copyrights, just move to China. They don't enforce copyright laws over there.
 
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2. Changing it to 7 years would devastate book writers. You know the little guy and gal.

It would kill George RR Martin. Part of his book would be public domain before he even got it publised..lol (yes I know copyright doesn't work like that). Would be add for part of a series to be in public domain though while the rest is still being made.
 
Also, the fact that, unlike patents and trademarks, copyright law does NOT require the holder to defend the IP at every turn means they can choose to ignore derivative works such as fan-films/fan-fic.

They may even be selective in their enforcement, such as when J.K. Rowling (if memory serves) sent C&D to those fan-fic which put HER "teenage" characters in very adult scenario, but left the family-friendly fan-fic alone.
I don't think random piecemeal censorship regimes are really the best solution. For example, the Star Trek Fan Film Guidelines actually forbid things that have actually been in Star Trek episodes and movies.
The dude tried to counter-sue claiming that since she didn't shut down ALL fan-fic, she effectively put her work into the Public Domain. Sorry, but copyright law doesn't work that way.
Arguing that she'd already granted an implied license would have been a better defense. Still a bad one, but a better one. :)
Since it isn't our property, should we be free of all repercussions?
Not all of them. Just those that would apply to properly-attributed non-commercial fan works.
Yes, because they violate an understanding and used someone else's property for profit.
You misrepresent the facts. For example, Trek Continues was a 501(3)(c). Many other projects that were series or full-length were also not operated as for-profit ventures. The ones that could be truly said to make a profit represent a small minority that would not be protected by the fair use provision I propose.
But, this isn't one collection, nor has every business responded the same way.
Exactly. It's entirely non-uniform. There's no accepted common approach to fan works, which is exactly what a fair use exception would create.
In point of fact, it is rather unfair to take "all fans" and lump them in one big category. That is largely unfair when different fan bases respond differently and IP owners also respond differently.
Most fans are not fans of a single franchise. If that were actually the case, mash-ups wouldn't be nearly as popular. What you suggest is that somehow having negotiate all the various copyright fiefdoms, each with their own vaguely-defined "guidelines", is good for fans, which is nonsense.
Ultimately, it comes down to this. It is the IP owners property, and I see no reason thus given to weaken their ability to protect their property, profitable or not. It's the same as hunting on private land to me. Does it benefit the land owner to say "Yes." Not really. But, it's their property, and they are allowed to decide.
In this metaphor, the best equivalent to hunting would be making profit. Fan works are more like people growing crops on your land, which is something that happened a lot during the Great Depression.
I cannot sue them to increase my access to their property.
Meaningless metaphor. You can't sue under fair use. It's a defense if you get sued.
TL: DR-fans have no rights to IP owners properties, from CBS, all the way down to the Deviant Art artist that I enjoy.
They have whatever rights are granted to them by law, ergo if you change the law, they have the right.
In some states, land owners may charge a fee to hunters wanting to use their land. How would such a concept apply to copyrights? Oh, yes, that's right: license agreements.
I've already covered this. It's not going to happen, at least for large commercial media properties. In their eyes, the liabilities outweigh the potential profit.
 
Modern copyright legislation is absolutely absurd, extremely harmful to culture, technically basically much of our culture infringes copyright and studies after studies show that Copyright should be limited between 7 and 20 years, not what it is essentially in practice, between 95 and 150 years.
The vast majority of profit on any production is actually made in the first few years, this is why several studies have now shown that even 7 years is the "optimal" copyright length, because for the vast, vast majority of producers, by the 7 year point they're basically reaping nothing from their production.
I tend to agree with others here that seven years is a bit too short. Twenty years, however, sounds about right to me.
 
They have whatever rights are granted to them by law, ergo if you change the law, they have the right.
Yeah, you and I are parting ways on this one. This is clearly an impasse, as the idea that I have a right to a property that is not mine, that the government must force these "rights" upon property owners tor grant access bothers me on a deeply fundamental level.

No one has the right to another's property is my stance, and will remain so.
 
Yeah, you and I are parting ways on this one. This is clearly an impasse, as the idea that I have a right to a property that is not mine, that the government must force these "rights" upon property owners tor grant access bothers me on a deeply fundamental level.

No one has the right to another's property is my stance, and will remain so.
I see you're going with the Natural Right argument.

https://medium.com/politics-and-policy/fifteen-problems-with-natural-rights-copyright-ec3ebc061cb8

Copyright is a legal right created by law., and if the law can extend copyright to the point of lunacy (automatic copyright, endless retroactive copyright extensions), it can surely limit it as well.
 
I see you're going with the Natural Right argument.

https://medium.com/politics-and-policy/fifteen-problems-with-natural-rights-copyright-ec3ebc061cb8

Copyright is a legal right created by law., and if the law can extend copyright to the point of lunacy (automatic copyright, endless retroactive copyright extensions), it can surely limit it as well.
That article doesn't just refute the Natural Rights argument in reference to copyright in the United States--it blows said argument completely out of the water.

To me, the whole "life plus 70 years" thing is the most puzzling part of U.S. copyright law. The person's dead. What does a rotting corpse need with copyright protection on its works? That would seem the most ... natural point in which to make the work a part of the public domain.
 
Copyright is a legal right created by law., and if the law can extend copyright to the point of lunacy (automatic copyright, endless retroactive copyright extensions), it can surely limit it as well.
I see no reason to limit it. None. If I want you to to be able to use it, I can create my own exemption-I don't need the government to do it.
 
That article doesn't just refute the Natural Rights argument in reference to copyright in the United States--it blows said argument completely out of the water.

To me, the whole "life plus 70 years" thing is the most puzzling part of U.S. copyright law. The person's dead. What does a rotting corpse need with copyright protection on its works? That would seem the most ... natural point in which to make the work a part of the public domain.
That's because corporations are "people", and corporations don't necessarily die after 70 years. :brickwall: And you can thank Sonny Bono for some of this.
 
It's entirely non-uniform. There's no accepted common approach to fan works, which is exactly what a fair use exception would create.
Why should there be? You want a one-size-fits-all rule, but it probably won't fit well for everyone.

A new author might like and allow fan-fic because, hey, it's free advisement. Whereas another might say, hey, I want to write more stories withing my universe, and all this fan-fic is confusing readers as to what's real and what's not. Or, as in the case I mentioned, the author wants to keep his/her universe "family friendly" and should have the ability to censor out the stuff that is "too adult" for the intended audience, while leaving others to "have fun" in his/her sandbox.

If I'm understanding what you want, you're suggestion the Fair Use Clause be expanded to allow so-called fan-fiction (and thus fan-films) free reign regardless of what the original author desires. That opens up a mega-sized can of worms. How do you decide if something qualifies as being "just" a fan-fic vs. a derivative work in direct competition to the original work? When does a fan-film stop being a fan-film and become an independent production??
 
If I'm understanding what you want, you're suggestion the Fair Use Clause be expanded to allow so-called fan-fiction (and thus fan-films) free reign regardless of what the original author desires. That opens up a mega-sized can of worms. How do you decide if something qualifies as being "just" a fan-fic vs. a derivative work in direct competition to the original work? When does a fan-film stop being a fan-film and become an independent production??
This is the question. How much is too much? How do you create an line? And would it fit for every situation?

Are not copyright holders better judges of what can be done with their product?
 
That's because corporations are "people", and corporations don't necessarily die after 70 years. :brickwall: And you can thank Sonny Bono for some of this.

70 years is far to long. I do actually think 25 years is reasonable. Life plus 25 years.

I don’t see why something I created should fall into the public domain while I am alive. And 25 years seems a reasonable time for my family to make the most of they can with my IP before the interest in my work fades—cause I’m dead and not writing new work and I’m not JK Rowling.
 
You misrepresent the facts. For example, Trek Continues was a 501(3)(c). Many other projects that were series or full-length were also not operated as for-profit ventures. The ones that could be truly said to make a profit represent a small minority that would not be protected by the fair use provision I propose.

Being a 501c doesn't prevent people from personally profitting from the work. You could create a non-profit 501c3 that is a star trek fan film production company that raises money from kickstarter and donations and still have somebody whose full time job making a 6 figure salary is making fan films and paying profession actors, producers, etc to work on the project. That kind of operation even if "non-profit" has gone beyond being a fan film.
 
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