Is the Transporter still 'killing' people in Discovery?

[Sci-fi fan]

This presumes that consciousness is fixed within matter.

It obviously is and we know why it exists: it's part of what makes a human brain smarter. If a brain does not know that it exists (or worse, that other things exist if we're not even talking about self-awareness), it is a stupider brain because it can not analyze itself in relation to other subjects. No supernatural capacity is needed to understand it, just the fact that without consciousness we would not be smart.

(and being smart happened to be naturally selected as more effective at the time)

 

[Mudd]

Well, their extreme comfort with being destroyed over and over again is certainly inconsistent with the repeated demonstration in Trek that there is such a thing as an "essence" which can be taken out of a body and put into another one.

There is no evidence whatever that "consciousness" exists other than as a property/process of the functioning of the brain.

 

[fireproof78]

So it's Star Trek.

This.

The transporter is "magic" disguised as science at its highest form.

 

[Balok's Decoy]

It obviously is and we know why it exists: it's part of what makes a human brain smarter. If a brain does not know that it exists (or worse, that other things exist if we're not even talking about self-awareness), it is a stupider brain because it can not analyze itself in relation to other subjects. No supernatural capacity is needed to understand it, just the fact that without consciousness we would not be smart.

(and being smart happened to be naturally selected as more effective at the time)

I think you're equating intelligence/reasoning with consciousness.

 

[Sci-fi fan]

Star Trek has never said you die, so you don't in this universe.

But they did. If they effectively say the elementary particles that make a body are no longer coherent, there is no life at all at that moment; there is literally very little difference - to no difference at all - to taking bottles and putting carbons and hydrogens and whatnot in them and then re-using them with a database to re-create a human later on.

Is that human alive in the "bottles"? Obviously not. What connects him to the previous human? Very little in reality.

And the most freakish thing is that you don't need Trek for that to happen. It's the default reality.

 

[Spider]

The moon landings weren't real, why should Star Treks transporter be?

Gotta go, I'm late for my flat earth society meeting.

 

[Sci-fi fan]

I think you're equating intelligence/reasoning with consciousness.

No, I said that being conscious is an essential element of being smart. In reality we are conscious because it's simply more effective in nature.

 

[fireproof78]

The moon landings weren't real, why should Star Treks transporter be?

Gotta go, I'm late for my flat earth society meeting.

Did you get that tin foil hat made in time? I know you were worried about that. I read your mind through my fillings. You should also get that spot checked out.

 

[Balok's Decoy]

Did you get that tin foil hat made in time? I know you were worried about that. I read your mind through my fillings. You should also get that spot checked out.

FLUORIDE.

 

[Spider]

Did you get that tin foil hat made in time? I know you were worried about that. I read your mind through my fillings. You should also get that spot checked out.

What has Data's cat got to do with any of this?

 

[Balok's Decoy]

What has Data's cat got to do with any of this?

Spot is a Changeling. CANON.

 

[fireproof78]

What has Data's cat got to do with any of this?

Alien shapeshifter. Gary 7 warned me about those.

 

[Tuskin38]

But they did. If they effectively say the elementary particles that make a body are no longer coherent, there is no life at all at that moment; there is literally very little difference - to no difference at all - to taking bottles and putting carbons and hydrogens and whatnot in them and then re-using them with a database to re-create a human later on.

Is that human alive in the "bottles"? Obviously not. What connects him to the previous human? Very little in reality.

And the most freakish thing is that you don't need Trek for that to happen. It's the default reality.

Yeah no. You're thinking too much.

 

[Spider]

Cats and canon, serious business.

 

[XCV330]

This presumes that consciousness is fixed within matter.

Panpsychism

 

[Balok's Decoy]

Panpsychism

Yes, if each individual consciousness is merely a microcosmic manifestation of the macrocosmic Consciousness.

 

[Timo]

Within the Trek universe, the matter is settled for good: not only do they never say that the transporter kills people, they actually say that the transporter never kills people. Just watch ENT "Daedalus". The technical details are rather irrelevant beyond that.

Outside the Trek universe, XCV330 nailed it already. Real people don't give a shit about things of this nature. If transporting is more convenient than walking or driving, people will go for it, as amply demonstrated by people choosing driving over walking, or walking over cowering in a corner. Except for crazy people, who will worry about a mirror stealing their soul and whatnot. That follows from the definition of crazy, after all - sane folks can't have paralyzing phobias.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Balok's Decoy]

That follows from the definition of crazy, after all - sane folks can't have paralyzing phobias.

Paralyzing phobias are not the same as insanity.

 

[cultcross]

Well it somewhat depends on how you define 'killed'. Someone walks off the transporter pad at the destination who looks identical and has identical memories to the person who stepped on at the embarkation point. But whether that person existed between the two points is definitely up for debate. The transporter breaks you down to component atoms, changes them into energy and beams that energy to the destination somehow where it is reintegrated as matter in the same configuration as before. Or something like that, anyway. This process can somehow work even without a destination pad.

However, Star Trek has stubbornly maintained that you not only survive the trip but appear to be conscious throughout (sometimes. Realm of Fear and Relics give two different takes on this just two episodes apart). The fact that this makes no sense given how the technology is allegedly supposed to work is seemingly irrelevant, as is the fact it is inconsistent with replicators. It's magic technology that gets you from place to place. That's about it.

 

[Timo]

Paralyzing phobias are not the same as insanity.

We're not talking insanity, we're talking crazy. As in, the layman definition of who is unfit to be part of the society. If you fear spiders so much you can't hunt or fight, the tribe will throw you out.

That's what transporting will be all about in any reality featuring the tech. Commuting is as layman as things can get. If you can't commute, you're crazy, even though medical specialists may have kinder words for it.

Timo Saloniemi