Spoilers The Future of Hugh Culber?

[Succubint]

I am in two minds about this. On the one hand, I really want to see more of the Paul/Hugh relationship, even though the latter part of it is dead. I can imagine him still existing in the network and sometimes interacting with Stamets.

And yet, I wonder if what the writers gave us is meant to be their 'epic love story' in its entirety. Short, but definitely sweet and engaging (for me, at least). He got to say an emotional goodbye to Hugh, they exchanged declarations of their love. Hugh got to warn him, help him get out of his fugue state, save the mycelial network and he also gave Paul a guiding path towards home with his music. I'm sure those who hated Interstellar found that part cheesy as hell, but for me it was still a lovely affirmation of how much Hugh meant to Paul that it helped him lead the Discovery back to the right universe, the right quantum resonance?

Anyways, I am just curious as to what other viewers think. Is this all that there is for Hugh/Paul? Or is that errant spore that landed on Tilly a sign that there's more to come?

 

[Refuge]

Stamets seems to have bounced back. Life goes on. The great love was just a plot throwaway.

 

[Cyrus]

While I am not gay, I think this is the best romance ever done in Trek. The characters and actors are very likable, and the scenes between them are well written. I am OK for them to see each other in the spore network holodec, but i rather they just bring back Culber somehow.

 

[Succubint]

Considering the short amount of time they had to establish the romance, I agree with you. It just works for me, on many levels. It's often the most mundane moments I go through with my hubby that reaffirm how much I love him. The tooth-brushing scene being a bright moment for them both, while processing their loss/separation really spoke to me.

 

[cultcross]

I edited the title to remove the spoiler. Not much point putting the 'Spoilers' tag if they're in the title

I've made my thoughts clear on killing off the gay couple; some felt I was overreacting because they were bringing him back. But it seems that was only for a brief HeadCulber sequence, and at this point they've killed him for good, and that Stamets, well, doesn't even seem to care. A very disappointing development. I find I keep saying that in the second half of the season. At this point, it would take a plot contrivance of some weight to bring him back - time travel (possible, because that looks likely as a plot point), or some kind of spore based magic (wouldn't make much sense, he didn't die in a supernatural way, he was just murdered). There is also no narrative drive to do so - Stamets doesn't care, and no-one else seems bothered either. If I may draw a comparison to another 'bury your gays' trope example, Buffy the Vampire Slayer, when Tara is killed, that is a big freaking deal, narratively speaking. It drove the end of season 6 and affected the show for the rest of its run. In comparison, Hugh Culber's death seems to be already forgotten. Tyler, who killed him, wasn't even in this week. So, even if he comes back, there's no weight to it, no power. He was just gone, then he wasn't. What was the point?

 

[Takeru]

I think considering all life was about to end Stamets not grieving and working as usual can be justufied, but now that the immediate threat is over Culber's death really needs to be dealt with.

A few months ago I was freaking out because I was worried Stamets was going to die because of the spore stuff and the drive obviously not being used in the future and then they kill Culber.

The first gay couple on Star Trek and they didn't even last a full season ...

 

[Brainsucker]

Well, looking at the situation that they are in currently, it's understandable that Stamets focus on his job first. Dunno what will happen later when everything has been over.

 

[cultcross]

I think considering all life was about to end Stamets not grieving and working as usual can be justufied,

Well, looking at the situation that they are in currently, it's understandable that Stamets focus on his job first.

It could be, sure. But a talented actor/director would establish that this was what was happening through the performance. 'Stamets is devastated, but must work hard to achieve this goal'. That could have been really powerful. Instead, we got 'meh, who cares', he actually seemed cheerier than usual when working with Tilly. The show seems to be trying to sell us on the idea that the brief goodbye in his head just completely dealt with his grief and pain.

 

[RobertoRossUK]

I think relationships are the worst thing on Trek. I've got absolutely no interest in romance when watching Star Trek, I prefer my Starfleet Officers to do things out of duty and honour, and real friendships, not because some of the crew are banging eachother.

 

[Cyrus]

Tyler, who killed him, wasn't even in this week.

There is supposed to be a scene, in one of the remaining 2 episodes, between Stamets and Tyler. I am sure the Culber murder will come up during their conversation.

 

[Michael]

Their romance definitely was (is?) one of the best aspects of the show and Wilson Cruz' Hugh turned out to be one of the most human and warm characters among the cast. I immediately fell in love with his performance. The scene way back in episode four, where he just trusts Burnham and looks into the tardigrade's health was wonderful and eye-opening, because up to that point everyone on the ship seemed to have it in for Burnham.

So I'm really bummed they disposed of the character so quickly and in the manner they did. Resorting to the very weird trend/trope of “burying your gays” for shock value was really an epic blunder on the writers' part; even if they do bring Culber back in the course of the show (which would probably only be because of audience reaction anyway). I think it's telling that even if their intention seem to be well-placed, they just don't seem to be able to manage this show's writing and plotting in a sensible manner.

It could be, sure. But a talented actor/director would establish that this was what was happening through the performance. Stamets is devastated, but must work hard to achieve this goal. That could have been really powerful. Instead, we got 'meh, who cares', he actually seemed cheerier than usual when working with Tilly. The show seems to be trying to sell us on the idea that the brief goodbye in his head just completely dealt with his grief and pain.

Yeah, him showing no signs of grief after he awoke was really weird. And I'm not even sure it's the actor's fault. It looks more like an oversight of the writers or the director.

 

[guyute03]

Honestly I just wish he never died in the first place. I just like the character, and the actor. I always have. And he belonged on that ship. Just sad he's gone. Whatever he is now, inside the spore network, will never really be enough for me.

 

[Succubint]

While I agree with you that we need to see more of Stamets' grieving process, I think that his reactions so far have been well within his character. He's always been brusque. Even early interactions with Hugh have touched upon this. He works too hard, is obsessed with his spore research to the point that Hugh has had to use ploys/pretenses to spend time with him. Paul realizes too late that he was less attentive and openly declarative than he would have liked to have been, but Hugh reassures him that he still showed him how much he cared. Which was what counted. It's pretty palpable on screen that these two feel a deep, abiding and tender affection for each other.

Stamets has a habit of compartmentalizing his emotions. It took Lorca a blatant appeal to his decency via a broadcast of children screaming under bombardment to get him to back down from his surly stance re: the use of the spore drive.

This is Stamets, he's a prickly, reserved guy who only briefly shows his tender, more whimsical side to those he warms to. We have seen those moments on screen, but considering the absolutely dire and desperate circumstances he was dealing with, I am okay with him not collapsing into a sobbing mess since he got lucid again, but stayed focused on where he was needed instead.

Perhaps he will be avoiding those deeper feelings of loss to his future detriment as a plot point. We don't know yet.

Besides that, it might just be my own biases, but when has any previous Star Trek main character indulged in prolonged realistic grieving for someone they loved? Kirk lost plenty of love interests, grimaced and looked sad briefly and was then fine the next episode. I'm trying to recall a season one equivalent in previous Treks.

I do get your point though, we can and should ask for better. Especially since Discovery purports to be a serialized show which doesn't wrap up its plots every 43 minutes.

 

[Agony_Boothb]

I don't think Stamets has really processed Hugh's death, and to be fair he was faced with with the destruction of the multiverse which at one point could only be prevented by the crew of discovery sacrificing their lives. It will probably play out over the next couple of episodes.

 

[Michael]

For me it's not so much that we didn't really see a grieving Stamets, but the way he almost seemed to brush off Tilly as she told him about Culber's death. It just seemed like he didn't really care, imminent destruction of the universe aside. Later on he just seemed a bit too chipper. Sure, they saved their lives and the universe and all that, but I would imagine Culber to a great extent was Stamtes' life. And he's gone, so why so happy?

Also, I hope no one is seriously saying the way they handled a character's death way back in the 60s with Kirk and crew having a laugh off at the end of an episode where a bunch of people got killed is something this show should aspire to. Same goes for how they handled deaths in the 80s and 90s versions of Trek.

 

[GeekUSACarl]

Killing off one half of the only seriously involved couple on the ship is an easy way to create drama,

they really should have a plan to bring the character back, at least I hope.

 

[cultcross]

Besides that, it might just be my own biases, but when has any previous Star Trek main character indulged in prolonged realistic grieving for someone they loved?

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One of Shatner's finest moments, actually. David has only been in one and a half movies, and yet you feel it. The pain, the loss, the failure. This is something that stays with Kirk, that comes out again when forced to face the concept of peace with the Klingons. Something Stamets will undoubtedly also have in his future.

One movie earlier, I don't think I even need to point to what is probably the most famous scene of grief in sci-fi history. I'd also point you to Ben Sisko and his grieving process for Jennifer.

I'm not expecting a four part series on Stamets dealing with his grief, but some indication that he gave a toss would be nice.

It will probably play out over the next couple of episodes.

I hope so, but then everyone was telling me "he'll be resurrected", too. That doesn't seem to be the plan.

 

[Jadeb]

Shouldn't have killed Culber in the first place. Dramatically, it wasn't worth it. The whole Voq/Tyler plot has been a damp squib, and Culber's death made me no more invested in it. Waste of a character for a cheap thrill, like the Lorca reveal.

I'm of the suspicion that Culber isn't coming back. Instead, Stamets will transcend his mortal form to join him in spore paradise, a la Decker and Illia. If the spore network is done after this season, what good is the fungus guy?

Sadly, neither that nor resurrecting Culber would be very satisfying. Lame ending either way.

 

[cultcross]

I'm of the suspicion that Culber isn't coming back. Instead, Stamets will transcend his mortal form to join him in spore paradise, a la Decker and Illia.

I never interpreted it as 'Hugh is in the spores', but 'Hugh is in Stamets' head'. Hugh died because his neck was snapped, no reason why he should be suddenly in spore heaven or whatever. No more real than the USS Stamets corridors.

 

[Ovation]

I'm not expecting a four part series on Stamets dealing with his grief, but some indication that he gave a toss would be nice.

I’ve seen all manner of grief (by the time I was 18—32 years ago—I’d been to 30 funerals and an additional 20 wakes—long story—and probably that many again since). Stamets resembles several I can recall. All but one eventually crumbled before recovering (the other never got over it). If it is simply ignored going forward, it’ll be disappointing. But I’m willing to give it to the end of the season and even the beginning of the next one.