Spoilers Vikings Season 5 (spoilers)

[Gov Kodos]

I have a feeling that going to 20 episodes a season is giving too much slack to Hirst. It opens up a lot of time that needs to be filled in thus nebulous wandering through the middle east. Astrid's wild ride with Harald. Also, the whole rape was not only gratuitous but turning it into a gang rape was adding an extra coating of toxic waste to a shit cake. The shorter seasons forced Hirst to economize in his writing. Success has brought the show bigger budgets and longer seasons which are nice but it is bringing in bloat.

 

[The Nth Doctor]

I guess I'm kind of the opposite. I understand what the producers were going for on paper, but I don't think the execution worked particularly well. The battle scenes felt very disjointed to me, because only Hvitserk's perspective trick was executed well. Halfdan and Astrid are both supporting characters I've had an interest in, and I feel like they both suffered weak deaths. Harald isn't (apparently) comfortable fighting his brother, but nonetheless kills him pretty easily. Same with Astrid, whose relationship with Lagertha early on I really liked. She kind of got sidelined when she was abducted by Harald and they could have taken the opportunity to do a dramatic fight, but that's not what it felt like. It felt like they were just standing around talking in complete isolation from the battle that's supposedly raging, and Astrid's reasons for not wanting her child don't have any context because nobody else knows the reason (i.e. that the child is the product of rape). Lagertha didn't know she was even pregnant, and Astrid's assumption that her death might give Lagertha an advantage doesn't seem consistent with the battle parts we do see. The two sides appear more or less evenly matched until Ivar sends in the Franks at the end.

The point of both of Halfdan's and Astrid's deaths weren't matters of combat, but of something deeper. Halfdan's was the conflict between his loyalties to his brother and his loyalties to Bjorn and his situation was one of the better things this season (least of all taking a character I loathed and making him interesting). Likewise, Astrid was greatly pained by both her relationship with Harald and the bearing a rape child (although the latter was a result of a toxic scene that would've worked better as Harald's child), and while yes, no one knows she has a child from rape, Lagertha assumes it's Harald's child and considers that reason enough (and it should've been). Neither of them wanted to fight. Astrid wanted to die and gave herself up to Lagertha, while Halfdan sacrificed himself to Harald's bidding, who decided to quickly kill him.

I have a feeling that going to 20 episodes a season is giving too much slack to Hirst. It opens up a lot of time that needs to be filled in thus nebulous wandering through the middle east. Astrid's wild ride with Harald. Also, the whole rape was not only gratuitous but turning it into a gang rape was adding an extra coating of toxic waste to a shit cake. The shorter seasons forced Hirst to economize in his writing. Success has brought the show bigger budgets and longer seasons which are nice but it is bringing in bloat.

I agree that 20-episode seasons may have given Hirst too much slack, I disagree the wanderings in the Mediterranean (I don't think they went all the way to the Middle East, just somewhere in north Africa) was an excessive point. In fact, that section of the season was one of the most refreshing and engaging parts of the season and I was disappointed when it abruptly ended and Bjorn and Halfdan were able to magically arrive back at Kattegat at so quickly. That said, I do agree that the rape scene was gratuitous and toxic and most certainly shouldn't have been done. Astrid could've just easily had Harald's son and have a terrible desire not to have his child instead.

 

[Gov Kodos]

The point of both of Halfdan's and Astrid's deaths weren't matters of combat, but of something deeper. Halfdan's was the conflict between his loyalties to his brother and his loyalties to Bjorn and his situation was one of the better things this season (least of all taking a character I loathed and making him interesting). Likewise, Astrid was greatly pained by both her relationship with Harald and the bearing a rape child (although the latter was a result of a toxic scene that would've worked better as Harald's child), and while yes, no one knows she has a child from rape, Lagertha assumes it's Harald's child and considers that reason enough (and it should've been). Neither of them wanted to fight. Astrid wanted to die and gave herself up to Lagertha, while Halfdan sacrificed himself to Harald's bidding, who decided to quickly kill him.


I agree that 20-episode seasons may have given Hirst too much slack, I disagree the wanderings in the Mediterranean (I don't think they went all the way to the Middle East, just somewhere in north Africa) was an excessive point. In fact, that section of the season was one of the most refreshing and engaging parts of the season and I was disappointed when it abruptly ended and Bjorn and Halfdan were able to magically arrive back at Kattegat at so quickly. That said, I do agree that the rape scene was gratuitous and toxic and most certainly shouldn't have been done. Astrid could've just easily had Harald's son and have a terrible desire not to have his child instead.

I just found Bjorn and Halfdan in the Med terribly short of what could have been just so we could stay on this war of Ragnar's sons. I liked the idea of seeing Byzantium and the eastern Rus vikings. That may seem too Ragnar 2.0 for Hirst so it came to an end. The way he did it with the cannibalism and oddly used thing with Kassia (why she wanted them dead, I have no idea still), I guess I'm just not happy because what we got briefly showed promise of so much more interesting a story than the cheap shock ending. Halfdan was a wonderful chance to show the emptiness of Harald and Ivar's quest for fame and glory and need to break the cycle of death just as much as Floki's story is trying to do. You're right that it's probably not fair to call Bjorn's trip bloat but the way it was used feels unsatisfying to the whole tapestry of the show because it's got too little to time among a host of other plot threads that also get too little time.

I am guessing we will see more of Heahmund and Lagertha. I expect him to play a part in bringing Christianity to the heathens next series. Rollo may offer lands and expect conversions to make the French overlords (and his wife) happy and Lagertha can get that farm she talked about a couple of episodes ago. I expect Harald will eventually displace Ivar to rule Norway maybe with the help of Hvitserk and the Franks. Ivar I am guessing will go back to York and face off against Alfred.

One off the wall theory I've seen floated around is Rollo will be revealed to be Bjorn's father. Stuff like this scene are fueling speculation that sounds more like a shark jump for it's soap opera like quality.

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[The Nth Doctor]

I think it was unsatisfying because it didn't have enough time to develop properly because it was cut off abruptly. I can understand why one wouldn't like it, but I found it a refreshing course of action for the show despite the ending.

It's funny to think that Hirst may have considered it Ragnar 2.0 considering the Bishop Heahmund's relationship with Ivar was clearly trying to invoke the relationship between Athelstan and Ragnar.

Actually, he WAS credited. I think after Jonathan Rhys Meyers it said "Special Guest Appearance by Clive Standen"

Missed this earlier. I just looked back at the episode and you're right. I clearly missed that the first time around.

 

[Unicron]

We may have to agree to disagree, though I consider it YMMV anyway . There were a lot of good concepts, but I still feel the execution was way off. Young Lagertha was another thing that didn't work for me in execution - it's a nice sequence on paper but it's not really given any context to tie into the battle. It's just a weird vision modern Lagertha sees briefly. If she'd not only lost the field but suffered significant injuries in the battle, (perhaps fighting Astrid) and saw her younger self in that context, then it would have fit better for me. It would have tied in nicely to her fear that she might be a casualty. But since the climax doesn't show that, it's like the oddball skeleton scene. * shrugs *

I generally try not to be too nitpicky. I just think they could have done better.

 

[The Nth Doctor]

One off the wall theory I've seen floated around is Rollo will be revealed to be Bjorn's father. Stuff like this scene are fueling speculation that sounds more like a shark jump for it's soap opera like quality.

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I didn't see this earlier (you snuck it in after my post! ).

I remember that scene and I rolled my eyes during the whole thing the first time around. I sure hope the speculation is wrong because ugh. Ragnar's younger children are crazy because of Aslaug, not Ragnar, dangit!

 

[Gov Kodos]

I didn't see this earlier (you snuck it in after my post! ).

I remember that scene and I rolled my eyes during the whole thing the first time around. I sure hope the speculation is wrong because ugh. Ragnar's younger children are crazy because of Aslaug, not Ragnar, dangit!

Speaking of bastards, did they ever imply Ivar was Habbard's son? I may be misremembering, but Habbard's first time around with Aslaug seemed to beg that possibility.

 

[The Old Mixer]

But didn't Habbard first come along after Ivar was born?

I thought that overall the arty approach of the episode worked well, though some of the segments worked better than others. They've done a shitload of battles, they have to try something different to keep it fresh.

 

[Gov Kodos]

But didn't Habbard first come along after Ivar was born?

I thought that overall the arty approach of the episode worked well, though some of the segments worked better than others. They've done a shitload of battles, they have to try something different to keep it fresh.

I could easily be conflating it with the kids finding out Aslaug was sleeping with Habbard. I do think much of Siggurd's animosity towards Ivar was out of Aslaug's sleeping around as well as her preference for Ivar over all the other sons.

 

[The Old Mixer]

I recall Habbard taking a special interest in baby Ivar when he first showed up.

 

[Gov Kodos]

That may be what I'm mixing up in my memory.