Spoilers How will Season 2 work from a character continuity perspective?

[Hythlodeus]

That's why "Batman Returns" had Catwoman, The Penguin and Christopher Walken all in it.

Batman Returns had Christopher Walken in it, because WB didn't like Billy Dee Williams as Two Face for whatever reason and wanted Burton to recast Harvey Dent with a white actor. Burton decided to change Harvey Dent to Maxwell Schreck instead to have another chance at Billy Dee as Two-Face in a sequel (we know how that turned out)

 

[Jayson1]

well, if you want two big-name actors to replace Isaacs, you'd need two big name actors to replace Yeoh too, which means FOUR big name actors, that's a lot of big names.
then we would need eight big name actors for season three and it totally spirals out of control.

get two stars that are in the same league as Yeoh/Isaacs for season two and I'm totally fine with that

I don't think Yeoh, really counts because she wasn't a series regular. Of course Isaac's might just end up being the Yeoh of season 2. Do about 4 episodes. Which is I admit better than the days of Barclay only showing up once a year on TNG. Barclay was someone I also always wanted to see more of even if I knew he was never going to be a regular.


Jason

 

[eltel99uk]

get two stars that are in the same league as Yeoh/Isaacs for season two and I'm totally fine with that

Me too - indeed, my "heart" tells me I'd love to see that. My "head" is ringing alarm bells, however - not because it's intrinsically a bad idea - merely because it requires some deft execution to allow for potential cast changes etc and for the network to keep its nose out. Too many good shows ruined/cancelled due to network interference....

 

[Jayson1]

Batman Returns had Christopher Walken in it, because WB didn't like Billy Dee Williams as Two Face for whatever reason and wanted Burton to recast Harvey Dent with a white actor. Burton decided to change Harvey Dent to Maxwell Schreck instead to have another chance at Billy Dee as Two-Face in a sequel (we know how that turned out)

I was familiar with the story of the studio not wanting Billy Dee Williams back as Two Face but I didn't know Schreck was created as a replacement. I wonder why Burton wasn't able to get Williams back to at least play Harvey Dent again even if he doesn't become Two Face in the movie. Sort of like how Ryan Reynolds played Deadpool in "The Wolverine" even if it feels like they made the character look bad on purpose.


Jason

 

[Hythlodeus]

I was familiar with the story of the studio not wanting Billy Dee Williams back as Two Face but I didn't know Schreck was created as a replacement.

Once you know it, it's hard not to see. The rewrites were not that extensive other than changing the name and the occupation of the character. Schreck's death at the end? That would have been the point, where the District Attorney would get his face scarred (instead of dying)

edit: IIRC, Williams was offered the role again for Burton's version of Batman Forever, but when Burton dropped out of that movie, WB decided to recast again

 

[Jayson1]

Me too - indeed, my "heart" tells me I'd love to see that. My "head" is ringing alarm bells, however - not because it's intrinsically a bad idea - merely because it requires some deft execution to allow for potential cast changes etc and for the network to keep its nose out. Too many good shows ruined/cancelled due to network interference....

One way to look at is that the studio already interfered when they fired Fuller. Not sure if a show that is basically the single thing keeping your digital platform going is going to ever get away without studio interference. Three things I wonder about that is going into how they will do season 3 is:

1 Orville: How much of a threat do they consider the show to be.

2 The Tarantino movie: How much focus will people start to have towards this movie instead of "Discovery." The show will no longer be the NEW trek show but just the Trek show. It will no longer have that new car smell to it, which means people will tend to be more objective about it. They things they loved might no longer feel special but the things they disliked might not also feel like a big deal anymore.

3 What will the next Trek show be about and when will info on it start coming out. Like the movie I think the fact that everyone sort of already knows we will get another Trek show so people are going to start to want to know things about it. Also is it possible they might set up the premise of the new show in season 2 or will that be two soon?


Jason

 

[Hythlodeus]

a show that is basically the single thing keeping your digital platform going

hmmm... isn't that digital platform the only streaming platform that allows you to watch NFL games?
I'm pretty sure that alone would keep it going

 

[Jayson1]

hmmm... isn't that digital platform the only streaming platform that allows you to watch NFL games?
I'm pretty sure that alone would keep it going

No you can get more NFL with NFL Game Pass or just watch the regular CBS channel. If you can't be at home to watch a game you can just use a DVR.

Jason

 

[eltel99uk]

hmmm... isn't that digital platform the only streaming platform that allows you to watch NFL games?
I'm pretty sure that alone would keep it going

Being a Brit I didn't know that but it would indeed give CBS a big "bonus" if true - I read an article on corporate finances etc in TV and whilst all the legacy networks are suffering, sport, and football in particular, are still doing relatively well. CBS would be wise to use profits from sport carefully - Netflix can simply throw huge amounts of cash at a huge number of shows and by the law of large numbers they'll get some mega-shows....and in the new paradigm, streaming services need their own library of in-house-made shows. CBSAA have to be more selective and can't afford to make as many mistakes.

 

[Jayson1]

One of the reasons why Sports is doing well though is because it seems to be one of the few things people still watch while it's live and happening. Everything else gets watched by everyone at their own leisure. Not sure if CBS-All Access is really going to benefit from that. The regular CBS channel does but that isn't the same. It's one of the reasons why you don't see sports on Netflix.

Jason

 

[Hythlodeus]

No you can get more NFL with NFL Game Pass

yes, but you can't watch anything else on NFL Game Pass and you'd still have to pay at least $ 20,- for the minimum service
All Access is the better deal out of those two

 

[eltel99uk]

One of the reasons why Sports is doing well though is because it seems to be one of the few things people still watch while it's live and happening. Everything else gets watched by everyone at their own leisure. Not sure if CBS-All Access is really going to benefit from that. The regular CBS channel does but that isn't the same. It's one of the reasons why you don't see sports on Netflix.

Jason

Indeed - I was going to ask something that parallels a phenomena being seen in the UK. People cancelling cable/satellite subscriptions on cost grounds and going back to how things were around 2000 - watch the game at the pub with your mates. Advertisers still pay as the number of "eyes on screens" is not much reduced, but if Americans are doing that in bars then CBS/CBSAA becomes a one-trick pony and CBSAA has nothing much to offer, unless it picks winners - fast.

People are going to need reasons to subscribe to CBSAA at a rate that makes money for the network - shows that appeal to different demographics, etc, to help build up a war chest of cash for further investment. They can't rely on CBS bailing them out. They need to do some long hard thinking about where DSC should be "going" - now as others have pointed out, they won't be watching this community to dictate their strategy, but subscriptions at season end, other shows in the works, etc are all going to be watched and dissected. I hope they draw conclusions that both satisfy as many fans as possible whilst not being commercially stupid, to get "shock value purely for the sake of it" etc.

 

[Jayson1]

I don't see how they will survive Disney. DIsney is going to crush lots of people's dreams of them thinking they could be the next Netflix. Amazon Prime has already started shifting gears and are going to start doing more broad appealing stuff than just tv shows that the critics and a select few seem to like even if that is the thing that sort of made them.

Jason

 

[Phoenix219]

I was familiar with the story of the studio not wanting Billy Dee Williams back as Two Face but I didn't know Schreck was created as a replacement. I wonder why Burton wasn't able to get Williams back to at least play Harvey Dent again even if he doesn't become Two Face in the movie. Sort of like how Ryan Reynolds played Deadpool in "The Wolverine" even if it feels like they made the character look bad on purpose.


Jason

That was Wolverine: Origins... and, incidentally, it has been stricken from the canon. All of its events have been ignored and/or retconned.

 

[O_Kav]

Since Discovery started and the Tyler is Voq rumors begun to float around, I developed a bizarre fanfic-y headcanon in relation to what I perceive as the future of his character. Brace yourselves, because this is all going to sound weird as shit...

In Season 2, I believe they will make him some sort of anti-T'Kuvma. He will retain both personalities and instead of seeing the whole "humanization" of Klingons as an existential threat, he embraces it and sees it as the only way forward for a functional Klingon Empire. He gathers followers and seizes power, starts a number of reforms that will lead to the Human-looking Klingons of TOS.

I remember a very long time ago some people arguing that an alternative explanation to the Augment Virus shenanigans would be something on these lines: The Empire deployed surgically-altered Klingons troops in worlds near the Federation border, so they could have made the occupation of these planets a smoother process. Finding collaborators and sympathizers is easier when you don't look so alien and terrifying like the Klingons do in their natural state.

That would also account for the different Klingon ship designs, attires and aesthetics in general. The Klingons under Voq try their hardest to look like a direct competitor to the Federation, exploring its weaknesses and offering "order" to the Human populations of planets they occupy. Instead of spiked-armors, they start wearing minimalist uniforms. Instead of Starships decorated with coffins, they try to ship out less complicated designs like the old 22nd Century Bird-of-Prey.

Since we all know that the Klingons are eventually forced into the Organian Treaty, maybe that's why 24th Century Klingons feel embarrassed talking about ridge-less Klingons. These Klingons followed some weird prophet (Voq), bought into his bullshit of "let's look like Humans to conquer them more easily" and eventually were screwed over by non-corporeal beings into the most humiliating thing you can ever do to a Klingon – to strip away his capacity of making war.

I mean, that will obviously not happen. Maybe they will simply kill Voq off at the end of this Season. If they keep his character in Season 2, it will be something way less convoluted and way less fan-wanky. However, a man can dream, right ?

 

[Jayson1]

Since Discovery started and the Tyler is Voq rumors begun to float around, I developed a bizarre fanfic-y headcanon in relation to what I perceive as the future of his character. Brace yourselves, because this is all going to sound weird as shit...

In Season 2, I believe they will make him some sort of anti-T'Kuvma. He will retain both personalities and instead of seeing the whole "humanization" of Klingons as an existential threat, he embraces it and sees it as the only way forward for a functional Klingon Empire. He gathers followers and seizes power, starts a number of reforms that will lead to the Human-looking Klingons of TOS.

I remember a very long time ago some people arguing that an alternative explanation to the Augment Virus shenanigans would be something on these lines: The Empire deployed surgically-altered Klingons troops in worlds near the Federation border, so they could have made the occupation of these planets a smoother process. Finding collaborators and sympathizers is easier when you don't look so alien and terrifying like the Klingons do in their natural state.

That would also account for the different Klingon ship designs, attires and aesthetics in general. The Klingons under Voq try their hardest to look like a direct competitor to the Federation, exploring its weaknesses and offering "order" to the Human populations of planets they occupy. Instead of spiked-armors, they start wearing minimalist uniforms. Instead of Starships decorated with coffins, they try to ship out less complicated designs like the old 22nd Century Bird-of-Prey.

Since we all know that the Klingons are eventually forced into the Organian Treaty, maybe that's why 24th Century Klingons feel embarrassed talking about ridge-less Klingons. These Klingons followed some prophet nutjob (Voq), bought into his bullshit of "let's look like Humans to conquer them more easily" and eventually were screwed over by non-corporeal beings into the most humiliating thing you can ever do to a Klingon – to strip away his capacity of making war.

I mean, that will obviously not happen. Maybe they will simply kill Voq off at the end of this Season. If they keep his character in Season 2, it will be something way less convoluted and way less fan-wanky. However, a man can dream, right ?

One problem though is this kind of story means that Tyler/Voq would have to leave the ship and thus it would be hard to keep him as a regular. Plus i'm no sure they will want to focus so much on Klingons in season 2.

Jason

 

[jaime]

Once you know it, it's hard not to see. The rewrites were not that extensive other than changing the name and the occupation of the character. Schreck's death at the end? That would have been the point, where the District Attorney would get his face scarred (instead of dying)

edit: IIRC, Williams was offered the role again for Burton's version of Batman Forever, but when Burton dropped out of that movie, WB decided to recast again

I think they ended up paying him a ton of money, because he was under contract for the role. Basically hush money combined with redundancy pay out. Did they get him back for the obviously Burton era Lego games? He did Lando in the Lego movie. I do t think anyone else has played Lando...apart from maybe the Radio version.

 

[Hythlodeus]

I do t think anyone else has played Lando

well, Donald Glover, obviously
Don't know about the LEGO games though

 

[Longinus]

No, it doesn't. Saying it does is doing the very thing that I think people ought to stop doing.

You're wrong. Only way there will be a Lorca on the next season is if they somehow find the prime Lorca, and that seems unlikely.

Aren't you the guy who railed against VoQ/Tyler theory when all the sighs were pointing towards it?

 

[jaime]

well, Donald Glover, obviously
Don't know about the LEGO games though

I am so out of the loop that every time I hear that casting I think of Lethal Weapon, and my mind goes huh?