150 years ago sapient human beings were being treated like livestock in the USA.
Spoilers Star Trek: Discovery 1x12 - "Vaulting Ambition"
- Thread starter Commander Richard
- Start date
Has it been confirmed that what Saru served Burnham in her quarters was Kelpian? All we know is Lorca had the same dish Saru served her. We don’t know what exactly that was. Cuz Saru serving her one of his cousins is really *shudder*
...Is Georgiou really Chinese-Malaysian, though? I mean, we do learn that Sato is Japanese, but we never learn that, say, Sulu would be Japanese in any fashion (his surname isn't Japanese, he's American-born, and his ancestors aren't discussed), regardless of George Takei's roots.
Georgiou has nothing remotely Chinese or Malaysian (or, say, Japanese) in her name, and her ancestors are a complete mystery at this point, in both universes.
Seeing her as the direct descendant of Hoshi Sato doesn't appeal to me, though: I'd hate to see the Empire as stable enough to sustain a single dynasty for more than two Emperors in a row at best!
Timo Saloniemi
yes she offered her the threat gangalian to eat
I thought he was eating something like an octopus or squid. How would he have access to Kalpian meat?
I wasn't surprised when it turned out that Lorca is from the MU, because members on the forum predicted that. But I will be very disappointed and sad if this also means that we will not see Lorca MU or PU (if he is still alive) in season 2.
I like Lorca and I don't think that Burnham at this point should be captain or first officer for that matter. She mutinied for crying out loud.
Last edited:
I could imagine Imperial history looking like the numerous 'Year of the X emperors' periods from Roman history with dozens of emperors getting assassinated before someone more capable with a stable power base comes and rules for longer periods before it all descends to chaos again.
Some interesting stuff / questions / observations about Lorca now that the big reveal has happened:
1. He was really good at "hiding" his savagery, which begs the question of what kind of man he is in the MU:
-Despite Stamets acting like an insubordinate dick early on, Lorca was generally short with him...but not outright angry or disrespectful.
-He agreed to bringing the "space whale" aboard, despite being irritated about it.
-He didn't kill Mudd (which definitely seems a MU thing to do) in either episode, which must have been hard
-He always remained calm, assertive, and confident in the highest pressure situations
-He didn't go berserk when the tardigrade was released, despite his clear orders to the contrary (particularly not knowing whether Stamets's abilities to navigate the network were sustainable)
2. He was totally dedicated to the war effort in a universe that was not his:
-He went to great lengths to save the dilithium mines that were under relentless Klingon attack
-He put everything at risk, including the Discovery itself, to attempt to save the Gagarin (I think...) at the beginning of Si Vis Pacem and seemed genuinely frustrated that they failed.
3. He seemed to have a sense of humor at times, and a certain level compassion for his officers and crew
4. How did he come to the PU, and what happened to Prime Lorca? Prevailing theory is that Prime Lorca actually died with the Buran, and Mirror Lorca took his place, making up a plausible story about how he was the lone escapee. I'm assuming MU Lorca must have been able to use the Defiant data and logs to cross over and find just the right time and way to spring into action? What was his plan, though? How would he have known that he'd find a functioning spore drive in the PU? How did he know he'd be assigned the command of the Discovery...particularly if he had to make up a story about blowing his own ship up and killing his crew? Again, maybe the Defiant logs told him everything he needed about "history" to maneuver properly...
5. Without the tardigrade or tardigrade DNA...the spore drive is useless. So, how would Lorca have known coming in to the PU that he'd be able to use the drive to secure passage back?
6. Was his only angle to get Burnham on his side in the PU and use this entire ruse to get aboard the ISS Cheron?
1. He was really good at "hiding" his savagery, which begs the question of what kind of man he is in the MU:
-Despite Stamets acting like an insubordinate dick early on, Lorca was generally short with him...but not outright angry or disrespectful.
-He agreed to bringing the "space whale" aboard, despite being irritated about it.
-He didn't kill Mudd (which definitely seems a MU thing to do) in either episode, which must have been hard
-He always remained calm, assertive, and confident in the highest pressure situations
-He didn't go berserk when the tardigrade was released, despite his clear orders to the contrary (particularly not knowing whether Stamets's abilities to navigate the network were sustainable)
2. He was totally dedicated to the war effort in a universe that was not his:
-He went to great lengths to save the dilithium mines that were under relentless Klingon attack
-He put everything at risk, including the Discovery itself, to attempt to save the Gagarin (I think...) at the beginning of Si Vis Pacem and seemed genuinely frustrated that they failed.
3. He seemed to have a sense of humor at times, and a certain level compassion for his officers and crew
4. How did he come to the PU, and what happened to Prime Lorca? Prevailing theory is that Prime Lorca actually died with the Buran, and Mirror Lorca took his place, making up a plausible story about how he was the lone escapee. I'm assuming MU Lorca must have been able to use the Defiant data and logs to cross over and find just the right time and way to spring into action? What was his plan, though? How would he have known that he'd find a functioning spore drive in the PU? How did he know he'd be assigned the command of the Discovery...particularly if he had to make up a story about blowing his own ship up and killing his crew? Again, maybe the Defiant logs told him everything he needed about "history" to maneuver properly...
5. Without the tardigrade or tardigrade DNA...the spore drive is useless. So, how would Lorca have known coming in to the PU that he'd be able to use the drive to secure passage back?
6. Was his only angle to get Burnham on his side in the PU and use this entire ruse to get aboard the ISS Cheron?
While I agree to some extent, let's not forget that Spock mutinied in "The Menagarie" and was cleared and eventually given a starship to command, and Riker mutinied aboard the USS Pegasus and was cleared and eventually given a starship command...Starfleet seems very forgiving of mutineers if everything turns out ok in the long run. Heck, NuKirk mutinied and was given command of the Enterprise almost immediately!
Prime Kirk stole the Enterprise and destroyed it, immediately given a new command. That's the equivalent of a current US Navy captain steeling a nuclear powered aircraft carrier to go on a personal errand, getting into a fight with the Chinese at sea, and ending up scuttling the ship!
I agree that I'm not really interested in seeing Burnham OR Saru as captain right now, though. I'd love if they scored another A-list actor for a Season 2 engagement.
In fact, even though the series is not an anthology, it would be cool if each season had an entirely different arc and an entirely different captain. After all, there's no rule that says captains need to say with the same ships forever. It would be fun having different types of captains, played by very good actors, come in and out of DSC. And, it would maintain Burnham in her role as a "specialist" below-decks kind of character, which I think is appropriate.
And Jean Luc Picard is French but speaks with a British Accent....
And it doesn't say she's a direct descendant of Hoshi, only that she may have been adopted by a member of the Sato Dynasty or that the title was an attempt to associate herself with that Dynasty.
Him working with MU Stamets solves a lot of this, especially how the two Stamets are linked.
Yep.
We haven't seen that though, and Stamets never entered or experienced the "network" until he infused himself with tardigrade DNA, and this was well after Lorca had crossed over. So Stamets and Mirror Stamets wouldn't have been aware of each other until after the crossover.
I thoroughly enjoyed this episode. Like many here, I had followed the clues and online speculation close enough to not be surprise by the Lorca revelation, but was still riveted to the actual reveal sequence. I feel that it was very well done, even if I am a little disappointed that my favorite, damaged character is the product of a parallel universe, rather than the ravages and hardships of a particularly nasty PU war. I really liked that Lorca didn't fit the somewhat standard mold of Starfleet Captain, a quality I found quite endearing in Sisko.
Regarding the runtime; I didn't even notice until I saw it mentioned here. It grabbed and kept my attention, so it did it's job. I'd have loved the episode to be longer (who here doesn't want more Star Trek?), but if it has to be pointed out to me for me to notice, I can't complain.
As to the credibility of the MU being so close to the PU, I'm not sure why some have a problem with this. The entire show requires a fair amount of suspension of disbelief. This being the thing that ruins it seems silly. I remember there being some similar criticism of Superman having a son back when Superman Returns back came out. No one questions the idea of Superman (a photosynthetic alien from another planet who's indistinguishable from a human, but is invulnerable, can fly, shoot heat from his eyes, and freeze shit with his breath), but the moment that guy has a kid - something all of our parents did - you lost them.
Besides, if there are an infinite number of possible parallel universes, mathematically speaking, literally everything is possible, including the MU, as presented.
Regarding the runtime; I didn't even notice until I saw it mentioned here. It grabbed and kept my attention, so it did it's job. I'd have loved the episode to be longer (who here doesn't want more Star Trek?), but if it has to be pointed out to me for me to notice, I can't complain.
As to the credibility of the MU being so close to the PU, I'm not sure why some have a problem with this. The entire show requires a fair amount of suspension of disbelief. This being the thing that ruins it seems silly. I remember there being some similar criticism of Superman having a son back when Superman Returns back came out. No one questions the idea of Superman (a photosynthetic alien from another planet who's indistinguishable from a human, but is invulnerable, can fly, shoot heat from his eyes, and freeze shit with his breath), but the moment that guy has a kid - something all of our parents did - you lost them.
Besides, if there are an infinite number of possible parallel universes, mathematically speaking, literally everything is possible, including the MU, as presented.
There have been Imperial officers with a sense of honor and loyalty. Maximilian Forrest, for example.
So things are not as bleak as Michael Burnham makes them out to be; it is entirely possible for some in the Terran Empire to have redeeming qualities. Lorca may have been one of these.
Didn't see it listed here. Anthony Rapp has confirmed that Prime Stamets and Mirror Stamets have not switched bodies.
Of course, Smiley was Terran and he was as good as PU O'Brien
Boo.
Indeed. What we totally need was to have a third character being replaced by a some sort of impostor...
