What fed citizen? He's not Tyler.
Spoilers Star Trek: Discovery 1x12 - "Vaulting Ambition"
- Thread starter Commander Richard
- Start date
What is he then? He's Tyler's psyche in Voq's altered body. If Voq is gone and only Tyler remains, he must be Tyler.
he did or he said he would have?
Despite a few people's negativity in this thread, this episode is the highest rated episode of Discovery on IMDB so far. (As an aside, none of the average Discovery episode ratings on IMDB have been lower than a 7. Every Star Trek series before this has at least 1 episode per season that has been rated below a 7 on IMDB).
Plus, the reaction to the Lorca twist on Twitter was one of extreme shock. So despite some people predicting the twist on here and on Reddit, the average viewer was caught completely unaware.
Plus, the reaction to the Lorca twist on Twitter was one of extreme shock. So despite some people predicting the twist on here and on Reddit, the average viewer was caught completely unaware.
I am rewatching the series with my 20 year old son who has seen very little Trek and doesn't care enough to read the spoilers. He's doing it to placate his ridiculous, obsessed parent. I am dying to find out when the pennies drop for him. I am debating whether to break after episode 9 to show him "Mirror, Mirror" and "In a Mirror, Darkly."
wow! you mean average viewers are not analyzing every freeze framed still for evidence, watch or read every interview of the production team and spent their nights on message boards discussing possible impilications of throwaway lines, smirksand acting choices? I'm shocked!
He is Voq, suffering from a delusion that he is Ash Tyler. They cannot just pretend he is real Tyler. It would be like making some lunatic who thinks he's Napoleon Emperor of France.
ah, Sarkozy, I wonder what he is doing now
Or he's Ash Tyler and has Voq's personality embedded in him somehow. That's how I interpreted the somewhat vague explanation anyway.
Supposedly, the Klingons would have easier going making their Frankenmonster 90% Tyler and 10% Voq rather than vice versa, when the explicit aim is to fool Federation doctors. It need not follow that evicting the 10% would be simpler than evicting the 90%, but it's intuitively attractive to think that this would indeed be the case.
Timo Saloniemi
Timo Saloniemi
Then why did they tear his body apart and put it back together? Didn't Culber say that all his organs had been replaced? (Or something similar.)
So it's the body, not the mind, that defines a person? That doesn't seem to make sense. If Voq's persona has been lost entirely, and only Tyler's remains, he's surely Tyler. It's not a delusion if it's the reality.
If a lunatic actually had Napoleon's psyche unheeded in his mind, and his own was lost, he would be more Napoleon than anyone else.
when the Master took over Eric Roberts body, he was still the Master
But it is Voq's brain, right? So original Tyler is still dead, and at best you've transformed Voq to a clone of Tyler. But considering the crudeness of the procedure, how perfect can such a copy be? Thit is not a Thomas and Will Riker situation, where the two people were absolutely perfect duplicates down to subatomic level. This is just a Klingon implanted with some false memories and brainwashed to have a different personality.
But cogito ergo sum, if he thinks he is Tyler, who can say he isn't? They thought he was Tyler and there wasn't a problem until Voq started to assert himself. Regardless of where the meat in his body came from, in effect he's Ash Tyler and his body was temporarily taken over by Voq. A fleeting madness which has now gone.
I'm sure original Tyler would totally say that, had the Klingons not killed him.
I agree, he must mostly be Tyler if he was Tyler's mind imposed on Voq's altered body, but why then the 'Manchurian candidate' like brain-washing portrayal? He was given key trigger words that would bring up his buried memories of who and what he is. But for what purpose or mission? His killing of Culber makes no sense unless he was programmed for that purpose, but why would he be? What strategic goal is served by killing Culber? I though L'Rell and Voq wanted to defeat Kol, well that pretty much happened without any trigger words needing to be given.
But we can ask Tyler. That's the whole point, he is the "original" Tyler as far as we know. It's like when Kirk got put in Janice Lester's body.
Please, don't remind me of that! It was some completely magic super alien device. How they described to process here, he is a copy. They altered Voq's brain pattern to be more like Tyler's.
