Yes, it's just conjecture at this point, so that's all it is until we know more. But I think I saw a post here somewhere where someone was assuming that for a fact. Was it you or someone else? I'm too lazy to search for it atm.
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Spoilers Star Trek: Discovery 1x12 - "Vaulting Ambition"
- Thread starter Commander Richard
- Start date
Yes, it's just conjecture at this point, so that's all it is until we know more. But I think I saw a post here somewhere where someone was assuming that for a fact. Was it you or someone else? I'm too lazy to search for it atm.
The way they're writing this thing and from the glimpse we had of next week's show, there's really no telling that MU Lorca might NOT be complex. As to "broken", yeah, that's not happening any time soon.
Of course. I was just saying, I think that's the angle some of the complaints are coming from. Disappointment at losing a man who was interesting because of what happened to him, not because of where he was from.
Myself, I'm good either way.
Oh, I totally agree. Lorca (we hardly knew ye!) as he was shown before was pretty much my favorite character in the show, so I'm undergoing some form of mourning at the moment...
This is the guy who gave Star Trek Renegades 9/10. We're not supposed to like what he likes.
He also thinks that Insurrection is the best of the Star Trek movies, so...Jesus.
I wish he was writing more articles about ship models and fewer reviews.
Another highly enjoyable episode. I love the dichotomy between the Burnham-Georgiou relationships - in both universes Georgiou is a mentor figure to her, and in both she betrays her.
I will also never be able to look at any scene between Burnham and Saru the same way again. In the back of her mind must always be the thought of how delicious he is.
My one concern coming out of the episode is what this means for Lorca. Unless there is a Prime Lorca around somewhere, I can't see how he'll be around in the second season. That would be a big loss for the show.
I will also never be able to look at any scene between Burnham and Saru the same way again. In the back of her mind must always be the thought of how delicious he is.
My one concern coming out of the episode is what this means for Lorca. Unless there is a Prime Lorca around somewhere, I can't see how he'll be around in the second season. That would be a big loss for the show.
You make a valid point here... but FWIW, you undercut it with your final sentence. Saying that people are basing a particular critique on assumptions not in evidence from the show itself is perfectly reasonable. Throwing in a cheap shot at "SJW shit," on the other hand, shoots your credibility in the foot. Basically the only people who use the term "SJW" as a pejorative epithet are those comfortable marking themselves as anti-feminist, anti-progressive, and socially conservative... and in a way that's conspicuously dismissive of other views, rather than engaging them. IOW, basically the opposite of the values involved in appreciating Star Trek.
A
Amaris
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Wow, that was... long. Oof.
I read reviews, occasionally, and prefer concise, straightforward ones (preferably with humor). I've been reading Jammer's reviews for Discovery, and while I'm a bit more forgiving than he, his thoughts are always clearly laid out and there's no pretense, which is something I appreciate.
Continuity error: Georgiou says she's studied the Defiant's records on the UFP, but Archer deleted them all in "In a Mirror, Darkly"
Deleted files can be recovered.
No, he was only planning to do it befere empress Sato poisoned him.
I guess I'll have to give it a rewatch.
I love Discovery, but I must admit: the writing is a bit all over the place... Lots of plot twists and revelations, but aside from Burnham, what do we really know about the other characters? I know it's diffcult to really ground characters during a first season. But Culber getting killed, it doesn't really do anything for me, cos I don't know the character. Lorca being from the mirror universe, ditto.
The mirror universe never really got to me. I find one universe more than enough. I see plot points in episodes that are being dealt with in 10 minutes, that I feel could have lasted a whole season.
The Klingons were supposed to be fleshed out, but what have we really learned about those 24 houses? Kol's motivations were just being the bad guy. There are no deeper layers.
Sometimes I do wish for the old 26 episodes a season to get more depth... Now it's just too much about keeping the story going forward, without getting to know the characters much.
The mirror universe never really got to me. I find one universe more than enough. I see plot points in episodes that are being dealt with in 10 minutes, that I feel could have lasted a whole season.
The Klingons were supposed to be fleshed out, but what have we really learned about those 24 houses? Kol's motivations were just being the bad guy. There are no deeper layers.
Sometimes I do wish for the old 26 episodes a season to get more depth... Now it's just too much about keeping the story going forward, without getting to know the characters much.
Culber, when explaining his discovery, went out of his way to contrast the Voq 'overlaid personality' that Tyler was suffering from with the idea of a 'buried personality', implying that the second was a known possibility and that Tyler actually was checked for it, but declared free of influence (due to the possibility of an 'overlay' being previously unknown).
My interpretation is that since Voq's personality is overlaid on top of Tyler's, erasing Tyler without erasing Voq is likely not possible. Only the reverse can actually be achieved. Though, I do wonder a bit why LRell didn't just 'accidentally' botch the procedure and kill Tyler also, just to spite starfleet.
If you are able to rise above the more base reasons why many watch it, then good for you. But at least my perception from my limited viewing of some of it and moreso the reactions of various friends and family to it impress me that it is basically following a fancy version of the formula used by the "professional wrestling" programs. They have the "good" wrestlers and the "villain ones", and they generally introduce some new "villain" wrestler in a match where they openly cheat in front of the viewing audience to win matches. They do this for a while, ramping up the negative emotions of the fans, and then eventually give a payout match where the "good" wrestlers manage to outfox the latest attempt at cheating and win.
That pretty much sums up the formula Game of Thrones used for the Joffrey character. Deliberately make the most abhorrent little tyrant that people can imagine and the give the payout with the Purple Wedding. At least among those I observed, the reactions were not some high-minded philosophical musings, they were celebrating that someone that they had been conditioned to hate intensely had been killed slowly and painfully.
And this was addressed to another, but I'll toss in my two cents:
In the real world, pretty much every major attempt to create a utopian society has resulted in rigidly hierarchical militaristic society, because you cannot make people adhere to whatever the utopian vision is -- from Hitler's Third Reich to Stalin's Communist future -- without employing a massive use of force. As one meme so quaintly put it:
You seem to be assuming that peace can be achieved unilaterally. If someone is intent on either subjugating or simply killing you, your own peaceful intentions will not make their threat cease to exist. It was actually illustrated nicely in the prologue to this series -- the two most ardently pacifist characters were also among the first to die. It isn't because the peaceful folks were evil, it is because the Klingons intended to attack regardless what the Federation representatives said.
Actually, I see the opposite. My dad fought in WWII, and I agree with the common sentiment that in many ways they were the "greatest generation". Those young people sacrificed a great deal in order to help the rest of us be free of tyranny. My own father spent Christmas time during the Battle of the Bulge sleeping outside during one of the coldest winters in Belgium's recorded weather records, and saw friends and allies brutally killed by soldiers of one of the most evil regimes in history. He and others who voluntarily endured such hell didn't make our society like the vile dictatorship that they were fighting, they kept us free. People who do these things are not horrible blots on our society, they are our heroes.
In contrast, in today's society after many have been born and raised with no experience of what is at stake in a war, we have increasing numbers of people who believe that they have a "right to not be offended". I've seen a clip of a fringe British politician actually being arrested and handcuffed in modern England for simply reciting verbatim in public a quote by Sir Winston Churchill.
IMHO, the path to something like the Terran Empire doesn't lie in nationalism, military service, or right-wing politics, but rather in the collectivist belief that people who disagree with them are inherently evil and should be punished for it. Once people buy into the absurd notion that they have a "right to not be offended", then they empower the government to deprive others of one of their most basic rights in a civilized society. It is only when the government decides that the original complainants have also committed some sort of thought crime that some of them wake up to the grave that they've dug for themselves.
This may be one of the greatest posts i have seen in my nearly 10 years on this BBS. This x infinity
Isn't it obvious? He's from the Mirror Universe!
I didn't realise this was so short - I thought it flew by, but only because I was enjoying it so much! A corker this week, with lots of confirmed theories and some brilliant moments.
Michelle Yeoh is great as the Emperor - she totally played Burnham though. "Your Georgiou is honourable therefore I must be too" is a ridiculous line to accept. Hopefully Michael isn't dumb enough to take her at her word.
We've also only got her word for it that Lorca is an evil, scheming betrayer - Emperor Phil would say that, wouldn't she?
My favourite moment was the 'delicious' dinner - gruesome and stomach-turning, and neatly subverting our Georgiou's fate.
All the Stamets stuff was interesting - we've had a recurring theme of people trapped in their own psyches with Sarek earlier in the series and now Stamets. We've now got a good idea why we never heard of the Spore drive again, and there was a touching exit for Culber. I still feel his death was unnecessary though.
What's next? I'm guessing Discovery will manage to escape, but to where? What will happen with Lorca, and what became of our universe's Lorca? Will the Klingon war be resolved? Is Tyler himself again? Is Voq really gone? Will L'Rell meet Mirror Voq? Is there a Mirror Tyler? What does Kelpian taste like?
Michelle Yeoh is great as the Emperor - she totally played Burnham though. "Your Georgiou is honourable therefore I must be too" is a ridiculous line to accept. Hopefully Michael isn't dumb enough to take her at her word.
We've also only got her word for it that Lorca is an evil, scheming betrayer - Emperor Phil would say that, wouldn't she?
My favourite moment was the 'delicious' dinner - gruesome and stomach-turning, and neatly subverting our Georgiou's fate.
All the Stamets stuff was interesting - we've had a recurring theme of people trapped in their own psyches with Sarek earlier in the series and now Stamets. We've now got a good idea why we never heard of the Spore drive again, and there was a touching exit for Culber. I still feel his death was unnecessary though.
What's next? I'm guessing Discovery will manage to escape, but to where? What will happen with Lorca, and what became of our universe's Lorca? Will the Klingon war be resolved? Is Tyler himself again? Is Voq really gone? Will L'Rell meet Mirror Voq? Is there a Mirror Tyler? What does Kelpian taste like?
If you think that then you were not paying attention to that scene or what was said. Every other woman I’ve spoken to either in person or online got the same vibe off that scene. The word used was “groomed” as that word has a very specific meaning these days, esp in light of #MeToo & #TimesUp movements. That word was used for a reason. MU Lorca helped raise MU Burnham from a child and ended up intitating a sexual relationship with his pseudo-daughter. That’s creepy AF, morally wrong and sexual abuse.
