Brevity is a lost art.
Spoilers Star Trek: Discovery 1x12 - "Vaulting Ambition"
- Thread starter Commander Richard
- Start date
Well, I'll chalk that up to Stamet's grief - and with him being so connected to the network; yes, he was able to communicate with Culber's "soul" as it were. Hey, there's always been a large Fantasy element to Star Trek from day one in 1966
)
Isn't that the whole POINT of the Mirror universe?
Empress kills her own men - worst cliché ever.
"Hey, look, I am Dark Evil Overlord, I like killing my own soldiers!"
Don't get me wrong, I loved this episode, but that scene was too much...
"Hey, look, I am Dark Evil Overlord, I like killing my own soldiers!"
Don't get me wrong, I loved this episode, but that scene was too much...
I subtracted one point for the "Terrans are more sensitive to light than prime Humans" bit, because it just bugs me how the same thing could've just been explained with that miniature sun sitting in the center of the Charon. They could've said that prolonged contact with that ball of energy causes irreparable damage to human eyes; after all, Terrans were shown on IaMD not to give a damn about the waste radiation of their engines. Still, it was nice to see how it tied into the big reveal, a true highlight of the episode.
That being said, I utterly loved this episode despite its shortness. I was pleasantly surprised when they blew Burnham's cover right away. It was also great to see her quickly making the educated guess that telling valuable info to the Emperor would let her live another day, but I absolutely loved it all blowing up in her face when Georgiou bluntly told her the Defiant's data was useless anyway and she was forced to jeopardize everybody on Discovery simply to not get killed on the spot.
The Wild Ride of the Pauls was bizarrely beautiful and gorgeously shot, if a bit heavy handed in its use of metaphors (after all, Tilly did tell us fungi were the bridge between life and death... the only way to make it even more obvious would've been to have ravens flying around everywhere). I think Paul didn't meet the real Hugh though, my money is on that it was the network reaching out to him with Hugh's image.
That being said, I utterly loved this episode despite its shortness. I was pleasantly surprised when they blew Burnham's cover right away. It was also great to see her quickly making the educated guess that telling valuable info to the Emperor would let her live another day, but I absolutely loved it all blowing up in her face when Georgiou bluntly told her the Defiant's data was useless anyway and she was forced to jeopardize everybody on Discovery simply to not get killed on the spot.
The Wild Ride of the Pauls was bizarrely beautiful and gorgeously shot, if a bit heavy handed in its use of metaphors (after all, Tilly did tell us fungi were the bridge between life and death... the only way to make it even more obvious would've been to have ravens flying around everywhere). I think Paul didn't meet the real Hugh though, my money is on that it was the network reaching out to him with Hugh's image.
At the same time, the writing seems to be targeting exactly those sorts of fans. We're in the first season of relaunched Trek, at a time of critical importance to the future of the franchise (and CBS' streaming service), and we spent half the season on a subtitled Klingon war that only fans could care about. Now it looks like we're spending the other half eating ham in the Mirror Universe, an ultra-fannish guilty pleasure that was cheesy 50 years ago. Future-facing Trek this isn't, despite all the gore and serialization.
Personally, I'm OK with them doubling down on the existing fanbase, if that's what they think is Trek's most viable way forward. But if they're going to write the show for uber fans, they have to accept what comes with that.
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OK I have had some time to mull this episode over.
I was rooting strongly for Lorca not to be from MU. I agree with others that a PU Lorca who has issues is far more interesting than MU Lorca. But strong clues were there (as covered nicely by the trekmovie.com article) and the reveal was done nicely. I still hold out hope that he turns out to be noble and somehow stay on Discovery. But for the love of god don't make him the big baddie of the series (as they did with one of their main characters on Dark Matter). That would be horrible.
The demise of Voq in Vyler makes sense, and allows him to stay as Tyler on the Discovery crew. But I am sure remnants of Voq are still there and he will be a conflicted character from now on.
While as a heterosexual male I wasn't too exited about a gay couple on Trek (though I supported the idea), I think the Stamets/Culber is the best romance they have ever done in Trek. Both characters and actors are very likable and their scenes together are very well writen. So I was hoping Culber will be back in flesh, and him just being on the spore network was kind of let down. Hopefully he does come back somehow via the magic mushrooms.
I was rooting strongly for Lorca not to be from MU. I agree with others that a PU Lorca who has issues is far more interesting than MU Lorca. But strong clues were there (as covered nicely by the trekmovie.com article) and the reveal was done nicely. I still hold out hope that he turns out to be noble and somehow stay on Discovery. But for the love of god don't make him the big baddie of the series (as they did with one of their main characters on Dark Matter). That would be horrible.
The demise of Voq in Vyler makes sense, and allows him to stay as Tyler on the Discovery crew. But I am sure remnants of Voq are still there and he will be a conflicted character from now on.
While as a heterosexual male I wasn't too exited about a gay couple on Trek (though I supported the idea), I think the Stamets/Culber is the best romance they have ever done in Trek. Both characters and actors are very likable and their scenes together are very well writen. So I was hoping Culber will be back in flesh, and him just being on the spore network was kind of let down. Hopefully he does come back somehow via the magic mushrooms.
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I really hate the idea of voq dying and tyler living on,
I thought it'd be much more interesting if the story was that Voq won over, he and Loreal escape and spend season 2 setting up some sweet hate driven revenge,
Also, to give my two cents about the whole 'the plot is unimaginative because throngs of people discussing it 24/7 are able to eventually decipher its twists' debate: I recall reading on TVTropes that many Babylon 5 fans guessed that Sinclair was Valen right away in Season 1 and it wasn't really a big surprise for most when it all turned out to be true two years later. Were people also calling Babylon 5 unimaginative and boring because of this then?
Yeah. This whole storyline has been pretty damn questionable, but if that was the end of it and he is just Tyler now then the whole thing was completely bloody pointless.
This is the format, NOT the mission statement.
Again: ER is a medical drama in a hospital. The "mission statement" would be "to save lifes". The "format" would be "interpersonal relationships result in drama".
"To boldy go where no man has gone before" is Star Trek's mission statement. End of story. "Action adventure story" is the format.
There's a huuuuuuuge different between the two you seem unable to grasp.
You don't seriously think they'll allow that, do you? Either he gets spaced at the first convenient minute - I doubt there's anyone on the Discovery crew who is particularly fond of Klingons - or thrown into a Starfleet brig as soon as they get home.
(Which would actually be the best thing they could do for him. If he gets extradited back to Klingon territory, his fate will probably make him pray for death, given how Klingons treat failed spies.)
I mean, not only is he a spy, but he murdered Dr. Culber! Do you really expect the rest of the crew to just write that off?
"A Minbari not born of Minbari"?
Duh.
Duh.
^ Most Minbari don't know about that. And even then, he wasn't a spy.
It wouldn't make any sense but it doesn't mean it cannot happen. This is a TV show. A lot of ludicrous stuff has already happened.I mean, not only is he a spy, but he murdered Dr. Culber! Do you really expect the rest of the crew to just write that off?
I'm not sure what the point is of MU episodes, to be frank...
My only point was that, in comparison to her portrayal of Philippa in the first two episodes, her work last night was nothing to write home about.
The only way I can possibly see Voq (I refuse to call him Tyler because, well, he's not Tyler) getting out of this alive is if Culber is somehow resurrected.
And doing that would be a lot LESS ludicrous than allowing a known spy and murderer to continue the Starfleet career of an innocent victim.
And doing that would be a lot LESS ludicrous than allowing a known spy and murderer to continue the Starfleet career of an innocent victim.
io9 has a critique of the episode:
https://io9.gizmodo.com/star-trek-discoverys-horrible-new-twist-made-a-great-c-1822293414
It's rather...emotional, but it hits the nail on the head with this one paragraph:
"There’s no character work. No real allegory. It’s just plot. We’re supposed to drop our jaws in how the pulled it off, and go back and look at the clues. Except, of course, we all saw the clues and just assumed it was bad writing. And it was, it was just differently bad writing than we thought."
This is entirely true. A huge swath of the main characters aren't actually "characters", but "walking plot points". Try describing the characters of Dr. Culberts and Tyler other than their rank/race? There is none. It's basically generic "perfect love interest", a walking plot point (get fridged/turn out to be a manchurian candidate).
Lorca is also disappointing. During the entire run until now, nobody ever got a grasp on him. I remember huge discusions here about people trying to defend his evil doings - even thinking they were the right thing to do (leaving Mudd, "haha, dumb female Admiral bitch had it coming"), all hoping there would be a more moral ambiguos case to be made. But nope - it's just generic undercover bad guy. As if we didn't knew that already by his very introduction scene.
This is disappointing. The only "real" characters we actually ever got to see were Burnham (who got a very unconvincing backstory), Stamets (who is awesome!), and Tilly. (And Saru - but he got basically demoted to "recurring character", and is also basically only there to deliver plot points).
https://io9.gizmodo.com/star-trek-discoverys-horrible-new-twist-made-a-great-c-1822293414
It's rather...emotional, but it hits the nail on the head with this one paragraph:
"There’s no character work. No real allegory. It’s just plot. We’re supposed to drop our jaws in how the pulled it off, and go back and look at the clues. Except, of course, we all saw the clues and just assumed it was bad writing. And it was, it was just differently bad writing than we thought."
This is entirely true. A huge swath of the main characters aren't actually "characters", but "walking plot points". Try describing the characters of Dr. Culberts and Tyler other than their rank/race? There is none. It's basically generic "perfect love interest", a walking plot point (get fridged/turn out to be a manchurian candidate).
Lorca is also disappointing. During the entire run until now, nobody ever got a grasp on him. I remember huge discusions here about people trying to defend his evil doings - even thinking they were the right thing to do (leaving Mudd, "haha, dumb female Admiral bitch had it coming"), all hoping there would be a more moral ambiguos case to be made. But nope - it's just generic undercover bad guy. As if we didn't knew that already by his very introduction scene.
This is disappointing. The only "real" characters we actually ever got to see were Burnham (who got a very unconvincing backstory), Stamets (who is awesome!), and Tilly. (And Saru - but he got basically demoted to "recurring character", and is also basically only there to deliver plot points).
Aside from the whole Frankenstein's Monster cum Manchurian Candidate thing, the murder of Culber is an issue that should sideline him. Unless they can, somehow, convincingly extrapolate that it was Voq, not Tyler, who committed murder (and how, pray tell, would they prove that?) I'm not sure where they go with Tyler, and that's coming from someone who really liked him, as a character.You don't seriously think they'll allow that, do you? Either he gets spaced at the first convenient minute - I doubt there's anyone on the Discovery crew who is particularly fond of Klingons - or thrown into a Starfleet brig as soon as they get home.
(Which would actually be the best thing they could do for him. If he gets extradited back to Klingon territory, his fate will probably make him pray for death, given how Klingons treat failed spies.)
I mean, not only is he a spy, but he murdered Dr. Culber! Do you really expect the rest of the crew to just write that off?
@Loginus has a point, of course. We already have ludicrousness at Epic Level Handbook proportions, so...
