Spoilers Visual continuity - Does Discovery strictly need to show past designs... at all?

[jaime]

In fact, "The Undiscovered Country" is still remembered as one of the best Star Trek movies and was the highest grossing film of the series UNTIL Star Trek XI.

The Spinoff Series do have their fans and followers, AND they have a lot of media and merchandise involved, but pound for pound they haven't performed nearly as well as the star trek adapted from the original series and original cast. CBS has probably discovered this in their own research, so the new spinoffs and films are being more closely connected to the original series than the later spinoffs.

By 1991 TOS was waning, TNG had eclipsed it at that point (later cinematic outings not withstanding) and STV had been a disappointment. TUC was a last hurrah, helped by the fact that TNG being what it was meant it could be made (sets reused, public eye etc)
By 1991 Trek was more than TOS. There’s also no way those movies would have continued past about 1989 without the TNG propping it up. And I love the movies, more than TOS, including STV. But they would have been gone by 92 at a push. TOS was not appealing to the teens at that point.

 

[Crazy Eddie]

The former was shockingly idiotic, yes. Never should have happened

They didn't have a choice. The original Klingon bridge set was just a sloppy redress of the Torpedo Bay set and was IN NO WAY suitable to be the hero bridge of an entire film. If they had tried to return the torpedo bay to its original TMP Klingon bridge it might have worked better (it seems like this is exactly what they were going for in TVH) but in Search for Spock, that just didn't happen.

The latter is more easily explainable by an inter-movie refit where the bridge module was replaced with a newer model.

... which is a totally baseless fanon explanation, neccesitated by the fact that the original Enterprise bridge (briefly seen in TVH) was transferred to TNG and converted into the Battle Bridge. And NOBODY seems to wonder why the transporter room, engine room, and intermix chamber in TUC are nearly identical to those of a Galaxy Class starship from a hundred years later, speaking of technology looking "too advanced."

could easily rationalize the bridge discrepancy.

Yes, you can rationalize all kinds of things in Star Trek. In fact, we HAVE to rationalize things these things, because it's been happening since the very beginning. "This is how it always looked, just use your imagination" is one possible rationalization that makes every bit as much sense as the "Well, they clearly replaced the entire room with another one because [insert short fan fiction here]"

 

[Crazy Eddie]

By 1991 TOS was waning, TNG had eclipsed it at that point (later cinematic outings not withstanding) and STV had been a disappointment. TUC was a last hurrah, helped by the fact that TNG being what it was meant it could be made (sets reused, public eye etc)
By 1991 Trek was more than TOS. There’s also no way those movies would have continued past about 1989 without the TNG propping it up. And I love the movies, more than TOS, including STV. But they would have been gone by 92 at a push. TOS was not appealing to the teens at that point.

They would have been gone because most of the cast of TOS was too old to really even continue in major motion pictures. The entire cast were in their mid 50s at that point and TUC even included their impending retirement as a major plot point. The studios only options were to either re-cast and do a prequel, or use the existing (younger) cast from the spinoffs that still had characters and story potential.

Turns out that story potential was tapped out by the end of "Insurrection" but, fuck it, they tried it one more time (and utterly failed) with Nemesis.

So then they went back to Option 2: re-cast, and do a prequel. That got us the Kelvinverse films, which were actually AWESOME and did, in fact, show some appeal to teens. The only other option that hasn't been explored was doing a "Side story" set in the 23rd century with original characters, a new ship and a new crew. Discovery shows us that even THAT option is now being explored, and it's working as well.

In all of this, the only thing that HASN'T worked is continuing to try and milk TNG.

 

[Ar-Pharazon]

There's a point though where it becomes comical.

1967... this is how they look...
1979... this is how they were supposed to always look...
1983... this is how they were supposed to always look...
2017... this is how they were supposed to always look...

^^^
You forgot
1991 (Chang in STVI; Purple blood) ... this is how they were supposed to always look...
1987 TNG Worf... this is how they were supposed to always look...

(And this isn't to BillJ because it's also the point he's making) - ANYONE who thinks Klingons have looked exactly the same since their first visual retcon in ST:TMP hasn't really been looking at them very closely.

But we really mean it, we're super-serial this time.

 

[Prax]

I really don't see the make up in 2017 as being any more advanced then what has come before it. It's an artistic choice. Most of the westmore era aliens intentionally ensure that the human face can be seen, as it's impossible for any full prosthetic mask to duplicate the emotion and subtlety of our real faces, but there certainly are many exceptions... The Jem Hadar, Hirogen, the Voth, etc.

Discovery hasn't done any make up that wasn't possible in the 90s. In some cases it is just as good, like Lrell, the Andorian, etc, but Voq looks like he's wearing a rubber face, and the Vulcans...I haven't seen anyone mention this; I think they look amateurish. They have fake looking eyebrows stuck on. Their hair looks clearly to be a wig, and Sarek's beard was clearly fake(or Frain grows an odd beard. I've never seen him with one).

 

[Prax]

In fact, "The Undiscovered Country" is still remembered as one of the best Star Trek movies and was the highest grossing film of the series UNTIL Star Trek XI.

The Undiscovered Country is the 10th(out of 13) highest grossing ST film, whether adjusted for inflation or not. It's the 7th worldwide.
The movie grossed slightly less than Generations(and obviously less than First Contact).

Edit: Actually, The Undiscovered Country grossed less than Insurrection worldwide.

 

[Mirror Mirror]

Is it normal to have to go to such lengths to justify every teeny thing in a TV show? Isn't it a bit weird that there's pretty much nothing that doesn't need a convoluted excuse to work in the Trekverse??

For a sci-fi show, yeah. Even for drama and such, Trek is not trying to be a "mindless action flick" its always been about thinking and pondering things. The ONLY people who have an issue with this and give it a second look are long time fans, and they should be able to shove this "conflict" with a single 1 minute pondering of trek tech.

 

[F. King Daniel]

For a sci-fi show, yeah. Even for drama and such, Trek is not trying to be a "mindless action flick" its always been about thinking and pondering things. The ONLY people who have an issue with this and give it a second look are long time fans, and they should be able to shove this "conflict" with a single 1 minute pondering of trek tech.

If each conflict takes a minute, you should have it all sorted out about half an hour after each episode has ended.

Or you could just accept that it's a fresh take on Star Trek, where they're re-imagining it all in their own way, and actually get to enjoy the show as it is instead of desperately trying to make each and every facet fit with what came before.

 

[Mirror Mirror]

If each conflict takes a minute, you should have it all sorted out about half an hour after each episode has ended.

Or you could just accept that it's a fresh take on Star Trek, where they're re-imagining it all in their own way, and actually get to enjoy the show as it is instead of desperately trying to make each and every facet fit with what came before.

Dude, its not even hard to figure out, a min tops for the slowest trek fans. Most of us went " less advanced holocoms" and moved on. Its not a hard topic, you guys are looking to make it harder than it is, you are seeking to make what is not a big deal or even an issue into some kind of major issue, when it simply is not.

 

[Greg Cox]

Why didn't he ever mention his father was a prominent Ambassador? Or that he had a brother?.

Or a fiancee/wife?

Of all the nitpicks that can be directed at DISCO, the idea that (gasp!) Spock was tight-lipped about his family and personal issues is hardly out of character. Spock never talked about that kinda thing if he could avoid it.

And, again, DISCO has holograms because plain old Skyping no longer looks futuristic to modern audiences watching TV in 2018. Realistically, that's all the explanation we need, "visual continuity" be damned.

 

[Mirror Mirror]

Spock would not tell the crew he had a pet cat as he carried it around the ship an petted the damned thing, much less about family.

 

[137th Gebirg]

Yep, it's been pointed out many times that it was a surprise to everyone that Sarek and Amanda were Spock's parents in "Journey to Babel". Kirk and McCoy were supposed to be his closest friends and they had no idea! Spock also kept Sybok's existence a secret from everyone until the latter shit the bed on Nimbus III. There is literally every logical and canonical reason to believe he never would have told anyone about Michael.

 

[Greg Cox]

Yep, it's been pointed out many times that it was a surprise to everyone that Sarek and Amanda were Spock's parents in "Journey to Babel". Kirk and McCoy were supposed to be his closest friends and they had no idea! Spock also kept Sybok's existence a secret from everyone until the latter shit the bed on Nimbus III. There is literally every logical and canonical reason to believe he never would have told anyone about Michael.

And this secretiveness runs in the family. Sarek didn't tell his own wife that he had a serious heart condition.

Vulcans play their cards very close to their chests, especially when it comes to private family matters. DISCO has been 100% faithful to "canon" in that regard.

 

[137th Gebirg]

And this secretiveness runs in the family. Sarek didn't tell his own wife that he had a serious heart condition.

Vulcans play their cards very close to their chests, especially when it comes to private family matters. DISCO has been 100% faithful to "canon" in that regard.

Agreed. One could almost say that the intentional withholding of such (sometimes critical) information stems either from a misguided sense of pride, or on account of an immense feeling of insecurity. Either way, not terribly logical. Vulcans really do seem have off-the-chain delicate egos.

 

[jaime]

Or a fiancee/wife?

Of all the nitpicks that can be directed at DISCO, the idea that (gasp!) Spock was tight-lipped about his family and personal issues is hardly out of character. Spock never talked about that kinda thing if he could avoid it.

And, again, DISCO has holograms because plain old Skyping no longer looks futuristic to modern audiences watching TV in 2018. Realistically, that's all the explanation we need, "visual continuity" be damned.

To be fair, it’s a sad state of affairs when real-time FTL video coms across vast distances is considered Skyping. But joe public ain’t what he used to be.

 

[Greg Cox]

To be fair, it’s a sad state of affairs when real-time FTL video coms across vast distances is considered Skyping. But joe public ain’t what he used to be.

Well, we're not talking about the actual technology, but the visual effect. Little kids are growing up being able to Facetime with Grandma, so a video transmission from Starfleet Command doesn't look as cool and sci-fi as it did back the day. These days it looks about as gee-whiz as Dick Tracy's TV wristwatch.

 

[Refuge]

I honestly don't see much of a difference between the various interpretations: ridged headed warrior race -> Klingon

You don't?

 

[Refuge]

Yep, it's been pointed out many times that it was a surprise to everyone that Sarek and Amanda were Spock's parents in "Journey to Babel". Kirk and McCoy were supposed to be his closest friends and they had no idea! Spock also kept Sybok's existence a secret from everyone until the latter shit the bed on Nimbus III. There is literally every logical and canonical reason to believe he never would have told anyone about Michael.

No. He didn't mention Michael then or any other opportunity because she wasn't invented until Discovery - fact.

 

[Mirror Mirror]

You don't?

Ypu throw hair on the current ones and they are damned close to DS9 style

 

[Tuskin38]

No. He didn't mention Michael then or any other opportunity because she wasn't invented until Discovery - fact.

That is the same reason he didn't mention his father and brother.

Or when Kirk didn't mention relatives.

That is the same reason most fictional characters don't mention things, they were not created yet.