Spoilers Justice League - Grading and Discussion

Exactly this.

Agreed. A consensually great film is undisputedly a good film. Period.

 

How can a film be consensually great? (Is that a movie that gives itself permission to be great?) If you're referring to a consensus, that doesn't mean the stance is undisputed.

 

The Godfather is agreeingly, commonly, consensually, consistently, popularly, undisputedly, universally, considered and referred to as a great film.

 

No...but regardless, my point was that a film where the consensus is that it is great doesn't mean it is undisputed.

 

By that sense nothing is undisputed. We live in an age where even fundamental scientific facts such as the figure of Earth are "disputed", let alone a piece of art.

But if you read my WW post carefully, I commented that a film where the general consensus is that it is great should be considered at least somewhat good.

 

I hope it did. Good people are feminists.

 

I'm saying when George Reeves' version was compared to Christopher Reeve's, the former was seen as not getting the role right, when the latter was like a comic book truly come alive.

 

I don't think whether or not fans like Gadot has anything to do with her having competition in the movies, I just thought she did a great job of bringing the character as she appears in the comics and other media to the screen. When it comes to characters like this, I don't consider performances from earlier actors, I just compare them to how well I think they bring to life the character from the comics. Mark Hamill isn't my favorite Joker just because of how he compares to Romero, Nicholson, Hedger, ect., he's my favorite Joker because he does the best of job of bringing the character we see in the comics to the screen.

 

Yeah. While the movie was painfully unremarkable, it's nowhere near that bad.

There's a moment in her fight with Doomsday in Batman v Superman where Doomsday lands a particularly nasty blow and Wonder Woman gives this smile, as if she hasn't had this much fun in a fight in ages! It's a great moment and I haven't seen anything else from her that quite matches the thrill of that look.

 

What I'm basing this on is the relatively easy treatment she got from audiences compared to Cavill and Affleck (both good actors).

 

Must be that selective memory. I can remember the criticism of her, especially of her body, very well. "She's too skinny to be a convincing WW", and stuff like that, and that's one of the nicer ways people put it. It was such a big thing that she even adressed it herself on Jimmy Kimmel. And her acting is being criticized by some to this very day.

 

The only politcal thing or people being easier on Wonder Woman, I could think of, is this:

Remember when the Ghostbusters reboot came out along with haters and defenders. I'm not denying any misogynists exists, but there are those that take any criticism of that reboot as a raging, anti-women, sexist, misogynist bigots. Some people just don't like it or just don't find it funny. For Wonder Woman, some people felt critics are just trying to avoid being labelled. I don't know whether or not this is true. I'm not a mind reader or have a lasso of truth, so I just say is "People just have different opinions."

Look at Luke Skywalker and how his character changed. Naive rookie, jedi master, regretful hermit. Some people really don't like how they wrote him in the latest film. While some want him to stay the same hero, but older, some don't mind when character change and evolve, fall and rise again, as long as, deep down at their core, they are the same character. Like Superman and Batman being flawed, a newbie, or a turning to the dark side. It's easier to like Gal Gadot as Wonder Woman because we are seeing her at her best. For Superman and Batman, we have seen them at their best and their lowest. Rebooting a character can be tough. Screen writers want to show something new. Superman as a rookie, and Batman at his worst, and from that, they can grow, rise, and be better. Sometimes they are done well and show the hero as a three dimension human, but done poorly, it's character assassination. But as with Luke Skywalker, some people don't want to see their heroes like that. It's all just opinions.

 

http://www.tasteofcinema.com/2017/the-10-most-disappointing-movies-of-2017/2/

Justice League won as the most disappointing movie of 2017.

 

Sorry for the folks who feel that way.

 

You are correct. In fact, when Gadot was announced as WW, one woman went on an angry Twitter rant/running attack on men because she thought Gadot was catering to what men allegedly want to see in a female character.

 

And once she actually showed up in BvS all that was forgotten and she was considered a highlight of the film. As opposed to Affleck and Cavill.

 

Who were indeed not the highlights of the film.

 

Well... She was the highlight of the film.

 

I'd also say that there was no substantial criticism of Cavill and/or Affleck once BvS was out. People didn't necessarily like the direction of their characters, but both Cavill and Affleck were mostly praised for their performances.

 

Yeah, I actually remember being surprised how much I liked Affleck as Batman. I still don't want him to leave the role.