Kai Winn's political power, retconned?

[JirinPanthosa]

I noticed something when watching In The Cards today that didn't seem odd previously. That Kai Winn is treated as the head of state, when it's explicitly established in Shakaar she was only the spiritual leader, and not the head of state. And she seems to be treated that way from that point forward.

Did the writers use the Boring Clause to vanish Shakaar from existence and act as if Winn was both the Kai and the head of state? Or is there another reason she's the one making the decision about the Dominion treaty in In The Cards?

 

[diankra]

Head of state and head of government aren't always the same thing. Shakaar was the latter, as first minister, but ISTR he originally stood because Wynn was seeking the post, presumably giving her both roles anda dangerous concentration of power.

 

[Bry_Sinclair]

As the Kai, Winn would hold a lot of sway with the public and in the halls of the Chamber of Ministers. Her desire for power as well would be something that would see her seek as much exposure as she could get. Her negotiations with Weyoun durin "In The Cards" could well be a ploy by the Dominion, seeking someone within the upper echelons of Bajoran society that they could have work with, whose own ambition for power and control could align with their own.

 

[BigDaveX]

Given that she busied herself claiming credit for the Cardassian peace negotiations (seeing how Bareil was too dead to contradict her), Winn probably earned herself a reputation as a good negotiator, and so was trusted by the government to handle discussions with the Dominion.

 

[diankra]

Also: Bajor is just out of a generation long occupation, and in season one Kira mentions a 'provisional government'. So power might shift if it adopted a formal constitution (and then elected an actual government) over the next few years, though you'd think it would have been mentioned ;-)

 

[JirinPanthosa]

Also: Bajor is just out of a generation long occupation, and in season one Kira mentions a 'provisional government'. So power might shift if it adopted a formal constitution (and then elected an actual government) over the next few years, though you'd think it would have been mentioned ;-)

I thought that's what happened when Shakaar was elected first minister.

Having reputation as a good negotiator is plausible. Also a good point that Weyoun would probably prefer Winn to Shakaar due to his research into her history.

In The Cards is also unique for Winn in that it's the one episode where she genuinely appears to be thinking in the good faith best interest of Bajor.

 

[Bad Thoughts]

I noticed something when watching In The Cards today that didn't seem odd previously. That Kai Winn is treated as the head of state, when it's explicitly established in Shakaar she was only the spiritual leader, and not the head of state. And she seems to be treated that way from that point forward.

Did the writers use the Boring Clause to vanish Shakaar from existence and act as if Winn was both the Kai and the head of state? Or is there another reason she's the one making the decision about the Dominion treaty in In The Cards?

Retconned? No. Apparently she had the power, either constitutionally given or based on tradition, in Life Support, when she negotiated with the Cardassians with the help of Sisko and Barely Alive.

 

[diankra]

Wynn is - until the last chapter episodes - thinking in terms of the best interests of Bajor. It's just that, to her, it's always in Bajor's best interests that she leads it.
I do not seek the duty, the duty demands me, etc.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

The roles of Kai and First Minister are usually separate, but apparently there's nothing in Bajoran law that says one person can't hold both roles.

Did the writers use the Boring Clause to vanish Shakaar from existence

 

[The Wormhole]

In Rapture Kai Winn was the one who was going to sign the papers admitting Bajor to the Federation, and the decision not to join the Federation after Sisko crashed the party was apparently hers to make.

 

[JirinPanthosa]

Maybe Winn quietly gained the power of the first minister position without officially holding it just through manipulating her connections. Like a stealth coup.

 

[tomswift2002]

Maybe Winn quietly gained the power of the first minister position without officially holding it just through manipulating her connections. Like a stealth coup.

I don’t think so. I was just watching “Emissary” the other night and Kira seemed to indicate that for the government to unify, Kai Opaka would need to call for unity, otherwise the various parties would be divided and Bajor would descend into civil war.

In a way I think the Kai might’ve been modeled on the Queen (or King, depending on who is in the throne) Of England and how Queen Elizabeth is both the Head Of England/Canada/Australia and the Head Of The Anglican Church.

 

[Hahawaitwhat]

Dukat: Y'all a hot mess without me there occupying, don't even know who's in charge...

 

[Tosk]

I don’t think so. I was just watching “Emissary” the other night and Kira seemed to indicate that for the government to unify, Kai Opaka would need to call for unity, otherwise the various parties would be divided and Bajor would descend into civil war.

Yes, Kira says that their religion is the only thing that is keeping them together and that if the Kai were to call for unity, everyone would listen. That's a lot of influence/power for Winn to later wield.

Kira also talks in Homecoming about how things have gone to shit since the death of the Kai. They need a leader, she says. So regardless of politics, it's clear that the voice of the Kai holds tremendous weight. If politics is supposedly the will of the people, and the Kai holds sway over much of the decision making of the people...

 

[Sci]

I've often wondered if the Kai of the Bajoran ... whatever their religious institution is called, is ex officio a mostly-ceremonial head of state with the First Minister as the head of government and real leader -- like how the Chancellor of the Federal Republic of Germany or the Prime Minister of the United Kingdom are the real leaders, and the President of the Federal Republic of Germany or the Queen of the United Kingdom are mostly ceremonial leaders, with some reserve powers to use in extraordinary circumstances.

 

[Bry_Sinclair]

Did the writers use the Boring Clause to vanish Shakaar from existence

It's a shame they never applied that to Voyager, would've lost Chakotay and Kim.

 

[tomswift2002]

It's a shame they never applied that to Voyager, would've lost Chakotay and Kim.

With Kim they were going to get rid of him to make room for Seven, but then Wang appeared in some teen heartthrob poll, and the producers went with throwing out Kes.

 

[Bry_Sinclair]

With Kim they were going to get rid of him to make room for Seven, but then Wang appeared in some teen heartthrob poll, and the producers went with throwing out Kes.

I know. A ridiculous reason to keep a character around.

 

[STEPhon IT]

I've often wondered if the Kai of the Bajoran ... whatever their religious institution is called, is ex officio a mostly-ceremonial head of state with the First Minister as the head of government and real leader -- like how the Chancellor of the Federal Republic of Germany or the Prime Minister of the United Kingdom are the real leaders, and the President of the Federal Republic of Germany or the Queen of the United Kingdom are mostly ceremonial leaders, with some reserve powers to use in extraordinary circumstances.

Back on topic.
It's what I thought Winn was, a ceremonial leader, but DS9 changed based on the political climate going on, so maybe her powers required some alteration. Winn was an incredible character when she was Vedek, but as Kai she was a 1 dimensional bad guy. No longer the manipulative vessel who had people do her dirty work, later as Kai she had blood all over her hands.

 

[Bad Thoughts]

I think the Kai is a little closer to Iran's Supreme Leader (aka Ayatollah) than a president in a parliamentary system.