How much of the Dominion war was planned in advance?

[at Quark's]

Was there ever a pre-planned timeline of global events in place, or did they make all of it up as they went along?

For example, in Way of the Warrior Klingons invade Cardassian space because they fear the Dominion is trying to gain a foothold (or at least destabilize the situation) there. Back then, was there already a 'master plan' by the writing team that Cardassia under Dukat would actually be joining the Dominion 1.5 years later on?

 

[MacLeod]

I doubt there was any sort of masterplan as it were maybe at best maybe a few discussions of where they were going.

But on a slightly related topic in universe did the war start sooner than the Dominion planned for?

 

[BigDaveX]

But on a slightly related topic in universe did the war start sooner than the Dominion planned for?

I'd say it started earlier than they had planned for... but after the point where they had already amassed enough ships in the Alpha Quadrant that they could have defeated the Federation and Klingons without any further reinforcements, so long as there weren't any unexpected complications like, for instance, the Romulans being duped into declaring war on the Dominion.

 

[Bad Thoughts]

Back then, was there already a 'master plan' by the writing team that Cardassia under Dukat would actually be joining the Dominion 1.5 years later on?

I think almost none, and any plans they did make were totally ineffective. From what I've read from various sources, Behr et al hoped to get to the war by season 5, probably wrapping it up that season. However, the interests of the studio conspired to push the war into the future, and their own inexperience with writing with this level of continuity meant that even plans they made in the short term had to be rethought on the fly.

The Klingon-Cardassian War was itself something they had not planned for, necessitated by studio interests, particularly the introduction with Worf. Behr has described most of season 4's developments as largely a distraction. Because of what happened, it may have seemed as if Dukat was being redeemed, something which Behr never intended. Given that, I think that Dukat's selling out to the Dominion was likely something that was done because it would be so dramatic.

Something else that seems to have been intended was that the war would be wrapped up several episodes into season 6. Initially they were given 4 episodes to do so, but found that they best they could do was recapture the station in 6. After that, they had to "pay the bills," so to speak, by producing episodes that were more like stand-alones, wherein the war was more of a backdrop.

Did they want a war? Yes.
Did they want the values of the Federation to be internally tested? Yes.
Did they want Klingons to join? Possibly.
Did they want Dukat to betray them? Probably not.
Did they envision a role for a secret organization? Probably not.
Did they want the station occupied? Unclear.
Did they want Sisko to conspire with Garak to bring in the Romulans? No.
Did they want Sisko to peel potatoes in his father's restaurant? No.
Did they want Damar to become a revolutionary? No.
Did they want Sisko to become a Prophet? Most likely yes.

 

[kkt]

I think almost none, and any plans they did make were totally ineffective. From what I've read from various sources, Behr et al hoped to get to the war by season 5, probably wrapping it up that season. However, the interests of the studio conspired to push the war into the future, and their own inexperience with writing with this level of continuity meant that even plans they made in the short term had to be rethought on the fly.

The Klingon-Cardassian War was itself something they had not planned for, necessitated by studio interests, particularly the introduction with Worf. Behr has described most of season 4's developments as largely a distraction. Because of what happened, it may have seemed as if Dukat was being redeemed, something which Behr never intended. Given that, I think that Dukat's selling out to the Dominion was likely something that was done because it would be so dramatic.

Something else that seems to have been intended was that the war would be wrapped up several episodes into season 6. Initially they were given 4 episodes to do so, but found that they best they could do was recapture the station in 6. After that, they had to "pay the bills," so to speak, by producing episodes that were more like stand-alones, wherein the war was more of a backdrop.

Did they want a war? Yes.
Did they want the values of the Federation to be internally tested? Yes.
Did they want Klingons to join? Possibly.
Did they want Dukat to betray them? Probably not.
Did they envision a role for a secret organization? Probably not.
Did they want the station occupied? Unclear.
Did they want Sisko to conspire with Garak to bring in the Romulans? No.
Did they want Sisko to peel potatoes in his father's restaurant? No.
Did they want Damar to become a revolutionary? No.
Did they want Sisko to become a Prophet? Most likely yes.

Is "they" Behr? The writers? The studio?

 

[JirinPanthosa]

I doubt there was any sort of masterplan as it were maybe at best maybe a few discussions of where they were going.

But on a slightly related topic in universe did the war start sooner than the Dominion planned for?

The Dominion intended to have such overwhelming force that the Federation would have no choice but to surrender by the time the first shot was fired. The mining of the wormhole forced their hand, but by their choice there wouldn't be a war, they'd slowly isolate each power one by one, make deals with them, then "I have altered the deal. Pray I don't alter it any further."

 

[Bad Thoughts]

Is "they" Behr? The writers? The studio?

The writers: Moore, Echevaria, Beimler, Thompson, Waddle, but principally Behr and Wolf.

 

[Dave Scarpa]

my only gripe with how they stretched out the war is the riduculousness of episodes like take me out to the holosuite and others where in the middle of a war the Federation might lose, they stopped to do silly things, those stood out like a sore thumb

 

[at Quark's]

Can't really complain about the mere presence of a holodeck episode in the middle of the war. Even in the middle of a war, people are still going to require R&R every now and then, and they have such facilities available. However, I do complain about Sisko and Solok rekindling their silly rivalry and getting obsessed over a baseball game and apparently spending copious amounts of time and energy preparing for that game.... in the middle of that same war.

 

[BigDaveX]

Honestly, I'm not sure whether I have more of a problem with Take Me Out to the Holosuite, or the numerous Vic Fontaine episodes. While the former is (at least to me) unquestionably worse than any of Vic's episodes and feels more like something that should have been on TNG or Voyager, at least it's easily ignored. By contrast, Vic got probably more episodes to himself than Ezri did, and they even folded important bits of character development (including Odo's getting together with Kira, and Nog getting over the loss of his leg) into Vic episodes.

 

[Bad Thoughts]

my only gripe with how they stretched out the war is the riduculousness of episodes like take me out to the holosuite and others where in the middle of a war the Federation might lose, they stopped to do silly things, those stood out like a sore thumb

It's not like in the middle of a real war, people play games, sports or go on leave.

 

[STEPhon IT]

Was there ever a pre-planned timeline of global events in place, or did they make all of it up as they went along?

For example, in Way of the Warrior Klingons invade Cardassian space because they fear the Dominion is trying to gain a foothold (or at least destabilize the situation) there. Back then, was there already a 'master plan' by the writing team that Cardassia under Dukat would actually be joining the Dominion 1.5 years later on?

Throwing shit at the wall and hoping it'll stick. The ratings were not as good as TNG and the producers needed their own Borg-type threat. Dukat joining the Dominion was a crime to that great character, he's just too good of a character to be dealing with those 1 dimensional baddies. So in order for it to work, Ira and the gang needed to deconstruct Dukat by ignoring what was previously developed; he had 7 sons, but now it's his mongrel daughter he had, and he loves Kira. That's enough to make a character be insane.

Cardassia bending over backwards to the Dominion or anyone is simply out of character. I get the Cardassians had to be neutered in order for the Dominion to be the great big bad gimmick in the universe. The Defiant being installed on DS9 definitely planted the seeds for some sort of incursion.

 

[BigDaveX]

Cardassia bending over backwards to the Dominion or anyone is simply out of character.

It would have been out of character for the Cardassians as they were at the start of the series. After the Obsidian Order were wiped out and then they spent around 18 months getting their butts kicked by the Klingons and Maquis, however, I can imagine that they were desperate enough to give anything a try if it restored them to their former glory.

 

[Dave Scarpa]

agree on your vic fontaine point

 

[JesterFace]

There are some things mentioned in this thread that reminds me why I like stand alone episodes more.

 

[Timo]

It's perhaps easy to miss that DS9 the location was actually rather irrelevant to the war effort for most of the war.

There were two things going for DS9: the wormhole, and the proximity to Cardassia Prime. But at the conclusion of the six-parter, there was no more wormhole - the enemy could never again risk trying to come through that one. Which would probably make the Dominion completely lose interest in Bajor, as the survival of their isolated expeditionary force would now depend on the gathering of Alpha resources, of which the supposedly strip-mined Bajor had none.

This basically made DS9 the Washington to the Dominion's Richmond, or the London to the Dominion's Berlin. A direct attack would have to wait for a time when all possible resources could be gathered here and applied to the utmost; meanwhile, there was a war to be fought. And giving Sisko a role in that war was in fact a sign that DS9 no longer had a role and could make do without its commander!

This doesn't make the many "homefront" or "on leave" episodes dramatically more justifiable - the opposite, in fact, since generally it's not our heroes taking a breather from heavy fighting, but some other folks entirely. But I rather enjoyed this alternate viewpoint into otherwise cliched space war, and cringed more at the desperate attempts to give our heroes a war role again...

Timo Saloniemi