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Spoilers Twice Upon a Time grading and discussion thread

How do you rate Twice Upon a Time?

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Uh. The First Doctor wasn't alone when he regenerated as depicted in this episode. Ben and Polly were there when it happened.

In "The Tenth Planet" they're banging on the doors to get in during the light show inside the TARDIS. The doors open when he collapses to let them in and close behind them. They notice him on the floor and go to see if he's okay then back away from him. The TARDIS takes off and then he changes.
 
I enjoyed it, pretty good Christmas Fare.
Bill and Nardole were my favourite Capaldi companions. I grew tired of Clara before Matt left the TARDIS.
It's a good job the TARDIS ejected the Doctor when she did as the console room went up in a massive fireball.
 
The Grinch Doctor said:
I don't get the hate against Clara either. The only thing I hated was the writing of Danny Pink. Not Samuel Anderson's fault by any measure, but the character was just horrible and the only time I didn't want to scream at him was his denouement in "Last Christmas."
Click to expand...

I liked Clara a lot too, not just because Jenna Coleman is easy on the eyes, but also because the character was fun and intelligent. Although, I do think Clara worked better with Capaldi. With Matt Smith, they looked too much like they were boyfriend-girlfriend. I also did not like the Danny Pink character because they did that ridiculous story arc where Danny did not want Clara traveling with the Doctor but she continues to do so anyway and lies about it. But honestly, I think Clara probably should have left at the same time as Matt Smith. Her "impossible girl" arc was finished. Plus, Clara's crush on the Doctor could not continue with the older Capaldi's Doctor. That would have been the right time to have her get a human boyfriend, leave the TARDIS and live happy ever after.
 
A lot of Capaldi's regeneration echoes what happened to Hartnell. As Patrick Troughton stood up, the First Doctor's ring slipped off too.

And I get that they creatively edited out Ben and Polly from the regeneration. It would be distracting from the Doctor's story (both of them) to have One shown to head back to the South Pole, land, and have them come back in. In any case, those segments of the regeneration have not survived, have they? Just the actual fading of the face from one to the other and a bit of Polly and Ben over his comatose body?

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And on the TARDIS' behaviour. It's really par for the course in modern Who.EVERY time the Doctor has regenerated, the ship has fritzed and lost control. Some of the time there has been an explanation (notably from Ten to Eleven, the OTT energy release caused catastropic damage), but other times (Eleven to Twelve) it simply happened. Here, I concur with the already-stated possibility that the TARDIS ejected the new Doctor to save her, not because it was throwing another fit. Perhaps the old girl needs a proper overhaul to correctly assist a regeneration (if this is indeed something it does, as the Second Doctor stated and which has been alluded to in dialogue since) and NOT get all explodey when it happens.

Mark
 
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Mark_Nguyen said:
A lot of Capaldi's regeneration echoes what happened to Hartnell. As Patrick Troughton stood up, the First Doctor's ring slipped off too.

And I get that they creatively edited out Ben and Polly from the regeneration. It would be distracting from the Doctor's story (both of them) to have One shown to head back to the South Pole, land, and have them come back in. In any case, those segments of the regeneration have not survived, have they? Just the actual fading of the face from one to the other and a bit of Polly and Ben over his comatose body?

To view this content we will need your consent to set third party cookies.
For more detailed information, see our cookies page.

And on the TARDIS' behaviour. It's really par for the course in modern Who.EVERY time the Doctor has regenerated, the ship has fritzed and lost control. Some of the time there has been an explanation (notably from Ten to Eleven, the OTT energy release caused catastropic damage), but other times (Eleven to Twelve) it simply happened. Here, I concur with the already-stated possibility that the TARDIS ejected the new Doctor to save her, not because it was throwing another fit. Perhaps the old girl needs a proper overhaul to correctly assist a regeneration (if this is indeed something it does, as the Second Doctor stated and which has been alluded to in dialogue since) and NOT get all explodey when it happens.

Mark
Click to expand...
It's really tradition at this point. Every first episode basically keeps the Doctor out of the Tardis so we can get to know them better. Tenth was knocked out most of his, he did pop out of it in the end. Eleventh was stuck outside of his while it rebuilt itself and Twelve was wandering around London most of his.

I just hope we get a full episode of her showing off her personality and not being confused about who she is or she's passed out. Something similar to The Eleventh Hour where she's saving the day and we meet the new companion.
 
Professor Zoom said:
Is it nerdy of my that I'm already excited about the next Multi-Doctor story with Capaldi, Smith, Tennant and Whittaker? And probably, given the length of stays of Modern Doctors, by the time the 60th rolls around, there will be someone else already in the role.

I'm calling it now: Idris Elba.
Right?! RIGHT!?

lol
Click to expand...
I keep hoping for Idris Elba, too. I doubt it'll actually happen, but it would be damn awesome. I think it's more likely than James Bond anyways.

Inappropriately Sexy XMas Song said:
It's really tradition at this point. Every first episode basically keeps the Doctor out of the Tardis so we can get to know them better. Tenth was knocked out most of his, he did pop out of it in the end. Eleventh was stuck outside of his while it rebuilt itself and Twelve was wandering around London most of his.
Click to expand...
Yup, which is why it doesn't bother me at all, along with the visual and audio cues (fire, warning message, Cloister bell, etc.). But I guess that's too logical for some people because they're already assuming it's because The Doctor is a woman now.
 
The Grinch Doctor said:
I keep hoping for Idris Elba, too. I doubt it'll actually happen, but it would be damn awesome. I think it's more likely than James Bond anyways.
Click to expand...

I'd actually like to see more Luther... of course, opening up that Series 4 was all a dream.
Elba is great, I hope he lands something that really makes him a bigger name, and not perpetually on a list of dream casting.

[/quote]
Yup, which is why it doesn't bother me at all, along with the visual and audio cues (fire, warning message, Cloister bell, etc.). But I guess that's too logical for some people because they're already assuming it's because The Doctor is a woman now.[/QUOTE]

Some people. Sigh. The Tardis was on fire when the Whittaker Doctor takes over... its takes a special sort of asshole to blame something on a woman that was clearly the fault of a man.
 
This didn't really feel like an episode but more of Steven Moffett's own testimony on his running of the series. It was those small character moments that made the episode rather than the story as a whole. Also the long monologue for the regeneration was something I saw last night and it didn't spoil the episode at all. Maybe it was part of this special being more of a swan song for the series as we know it rather than an actual episode.

I'm looking forward to Whittaker and hopefully they come up with a creative way to resolve the cliffhanger.
 
Professor Zoom said:
I'd actually like to see more Luther... of course, opening up that Series 4 was all a dream.
Elba is great, I hope he lands something that really makes him a bigger name, and not perpetually on a list of dream casting.
Click to expand...
I'm always down for more Luther, especially when Ruth Wilson is more involved in the series. And we are getting four episodes for series 5 early next year!

Professor Zoom said:
Some people. Sigh. The Tardis was on fire when the Whittaker Doctor takes over... its takes a special sort of asshole to blame something on a woman that was clearly the fault of a man.
Click to expand...
Indeed...but unfortunately, that's the world we live in. It's only becoming more visible now.
 
I enjoyed it for the most part, found it a little self-indulgent in places (as Moffat is wont to be) and a little nonsensical in others (again, Moffat). One thing I couldn't quite get my head around is Bill - she remembered Heather saving her, yet I was under the impression that Heather was basically immortal now, and that having turned Bill into the same type of being as she is, Blll now was as well. Yet she must have still died at some point later on, else her Testament avatar wouldn't remember that part, as she originally died on the Mondasian ship. Urgh, timey-wimey stuff.

And I agree with those who said that the whole Testament thing was too similar to Missy stealing away people's consciousness/souls upon their deaths in series 8.

The Grinch Doctor said:
Wait, what? Last Christmas special?
Click to expand...
Lonemagpie said:
Series 11 is made of ten 50-minute episodes and there has been no announcement of a Xmas special. Meaning - if there isn't an announcement before it starts airing in the autumn - either there will be no Xmas Day DW, or they'll schedule the series broadcast in such a way as to ensure the series finale is on at Xmas,and thus not have to fork out extra money for an extra episode.
Click to expand...

from what I've read there initially wasn't going to be one this year, either. Moffat was officially supposed to be done at the end of series 10 and Chibnall was due to start on series 11 whenever work on that started. Moffat decided to stay on to do the special.

ETA: Woo, new Luther! Hadn't heard about this either. Can't wait, it'sone of my absolute favourite shows.
 
Very decent episode. Not great but one of the better christmas episodes.
Loved the first Doctor here. Want more stories with other doctors.
Thought the introduction of 13 was rather weak and unmemorable. Not much reaction to a new face. Or we don't want to make a thing of it because she is a woman now?
 
Mark_Nguyen said:
A lot of Capaldi's regeneration echoes what happened to Hartnell. As Patrick Troughton stood up, the First Doctor's ring slipped off too.

And I get that they creatively edited out Ben and Polly from the regeneration. It would be distracting from the Doctor's story (both of them) to have One shown to head back to the South Pole, land, and have them come back in. In any case, those segments of the regeneration have not survived, have they? Just the actual fading of the face from one to the other and a bit of Polly and Ben over his comatose body?

To view this content we will need your consent to set third party cookies.
For more detailed information, see our cookies page.

And on the TARDIS' behaviour. It's really par for the course in modern Who.EVERY time the Doctor has regenerated, the ship has fritzed and lost control. Some of the time there has been an explanation (notably from Ten to Eleven, the OTT energy release caused catastropic damage), but other times (Eleven to Twelve) it simply happened. Here, I concur with the already-stated possibility that the TARDIS ejected the new Doctor to save her, not because it was throwing another fit. Perhaps the old girl needs a proper overhaul to correctly assist a regeneration (if this is indeed something it does, as the Second Doctor stated and which has been alluded to in dialogue since) and NOT get all explodey when it happens.

Mark
Click to expand...
Polly and Ben coming in, and Polly saying "His face, look at it!" survives (I think). Though that is a relic of the original idea, before a faulty mixing desk gave the vt team the idea of actually showing the change, that they just look at his face and see it's different (whereas on-screen it's changing).
 
Well, That much is par for the course, but THIS time the physical change is so self-evident that they aren’t spending any dialogue commenting in new teeth, chin, or kidneys. Instead, we jump right to the TARDIS tossing the new Doctor around, which is as mentioned par for the course.

Mark
 
I admit, I was mixed on it though I think I'm warming to it more now.

-I really enjoyed David Bradley and his portrayal of The First Doctor. Though I greatly disliked the string of sexist jokes that Moffat gave him. It was like he was commenting on the era in which Doctor Who was created in as well as a commentary on the current climate. I read an interview with Gatiss that confirmed he was going after 60s chauvinism. Problem is, Hartnell's Doctor was PATERNALISTIC (look at how he makes Susan's decision for her in The Dalek Invasion of Earth) but didn't go around treating his younger female companions like it was their job to keep the TARDIS clean. The Brig at times and Harry Sullivan even more could be chauvinist but this was a dumb decision on Moffat's part that didn't fit the First Doctor's character. It could have been done more subtly as well. "I see you don't have companions with you anymore. This place is a mess" would have worked more. I find it laughable that Moffat tried to portray himself as some great champion of women with how unbelievable bad and tone-deaf that he can be on this subject *cough*Sherlock!*cough*.

There's plenty of ways to have shown how rough around the edges the First Doctor was compared to the 12th Doctor (including one really out-of-character action in An Unearthly Child). But all of a sudden making him a sexist jerk is not the route to go. Coming from Gallifrey, the characterization doesn't make sense and as pointed out, he knew that women weren't fragile. Barbara's time on the Tardis is proof of that.

-Capaldi and Bradley worked well off of each other, with 1 admitting to 12 that he was scared of regenerating. I also liked 1's conversation with Not Bill about what he was running towards.

-Speaking of Not Bill, I really thought that was going to be Susan there.

-Mark Gatiss was fantastic and this part of the special was particularly strong. Figured out easy months ago that he was a Lethbridge Stewart although I don't buy that he's the Brigadier's father as that would make the Brig him well into his 50s when he first met the Doctor. Archibald was likely Alistair's father.

-Didn't expect the Christmas Armistice to save Archibald but I greatly approve of it. Yes, it's yet another example of Moffat's complete inability to kill anyone and let it stick but it's Christmas and it was a chance for 12 to do one more good deed.

-I kind of like 12's last adventure being low-key but can't help but feel they could have done so much more, particularly with 1.

-The return of Rusty the Dalek felt very random.

-Some great recreations of the First Doctor era, like with the original Tardis.

-The Doctor's reunion with Not Bill and Not Nardole was a wonderful scene and emotional, as was describing his life as a battlefield.

-Knew Clara would show up once again though she manages to annoy even with a brief appearance. Capaldi sold the hell out of that smile when he remembered although why he would smile when remembering his times with Clara is beyond me. Those two brought out the very worst in each other.

-Disappointed in 12's speech at the end, which sounded like he was going through a roller deck of the Doctor's great hits (the score was epic though). That being said, I like Peter Capaldi a great deal. Moffat didn't serve him well but he always gave you everything that he had and was the best ambassador that Doctor Who could ever hope for.

-The regeneration into the 13th Doctor was really well done and left on a good cliffhanger. Though I see I wasn't the only one that thought that Moffat basically managed to write a "women can't drive" joke literally one minute before The Doctor became a woman. No doubt this is something he laughed about and found funny but would get pissy if ever questioned about it.

-Now, I'll stand by what I said that I think the Doctor should be a man like Wonder Woman should be a woman. But perhaps this change is what Doctor Who needs...it opens up new possibilities without a doubt and I've been impressed with Jodie's work from what I've seen. But the best thing of all is that Moffat is FINALLY done as the showrunner and after watching some of his decisions again last night, all I can say is GOOD RIDDANCE!
 
DarthPipes said:
-Disappointed in 12's speech at the end, which sounded like he was going through a roller deck of the Doctor's great hits (the score was epic though). That being said, I like Peter Capaldi a great deal. Moffat didn't serve him well but he always gave you everything that he had and was the best ambassador that Doctor Who could ever hope for.
Click to expand...

I actually thought that was a great bookend on Twelve's life. He was born so unsure of himself, openly questioning if he was still the same man after all these regenerations, if he even was still 'a good man'. Not this time. By trying to drill the basics of being the Doctor into Thirteen before she took the reigns, he'd ensure she hit the ground ru... uhhhhh.... well, with hopefully more than a splat.
 
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