Moffat reveals who Tom was playing in Day of the Doctor!

[starsuperion]

Doctor Who "canon" has never been a rigid, consistent thing. New stories have either acknowledged, contradicted, or ignored what's been done in the past, depending on what best suited the needs of the moment or the inclinations of a given showrunner.

And even as far as a strictly literal reading of canon is concerned, the Curator never explicitly confirmed he was a future Doctor. He just said "might" and "perhaps."



It's a complete misreading of the scene to take that as definitive, unarguable confirmation that the Curator absolutely is a future Doctor. That's not what the Curator said, and it's not what Moffat meant him to say. His speech was deliberately left as ambiguous and open to interpretation as possible, because it wasn't meant to be some deep revelation about canon, it was just an in-joke for fun.

So bottom line, all canon is rewritable in doctor who, nothing is ever set in stone because time and space changes can occur. Timey-wimey seems appropriate. It's funny how canon like, oh well the Master has been established as a woman, the general and the corsair, so ergo the Doctor can be A woman as well., that's supposed to be hard core canon. But say the doctor could become a previous incarnation in the curator, and oh..canon isn't set in stone. It contradicts all the time..

So which is it?

 

[Mark_Nguyen]

We pick and choose, call it canon in our heads, and it stays that way until it changes. RTD had his idea of a canon(at least as far as TV writers usually do), and then Moffatt came in and re-wrote everything to his fancy. Chibnall will do the same. And they'll do the same WITHIN their own eras of the show, if it suits their goals of creating good television. The rest of us wrestle with the presented products and eventually twist it into something that jives with our own interpretation, or reject it entirely.

Kinda like, oh, let's say someone comes up with a great fan design for what a TARDIS should be on the inside, and publishes iterations of it until they declare it final. Then, some months later re-interprets it into a whole other great fan design, and tinkers with it until they declare it a final published version. Then does it again. The rest of us wrestle with the presented products and eventually twist it into something that jives with our own interpretation, or reject it entirely.

Mark

 

[Allyn Gibson]

It's a complete misreading of the scene to take that as definitive, unarguable confirmation that the Curator absolutely is a future Doctor. That's not what the Curator said, and it's not what Moffat meant him to say. His speech was deliberately left as ambiguous and open to interpretation as possible, because it wasn't meant to be some deep revelation about canon, it was just an in-joke for fun.

In my mind, the Curator is the fourth Doctor. I don't know how that's possible (though I have a theory that explains the pre-Hartnell Morbius Doctors, why Davison can be explicitly the fifth incarnation and Smith the thirteenth and final, and why the Time Scoop failed in "The Five Doctors"), but that is the Doctor who traveled in the TARDIS on our television screens in the 1970s, not one who happens to look like that Doctor. The scene with the Curator loses its emotional impact if it's a future Doctor. I mean, yes, a future Doctor lived, many lifetimes ago, all of the adventures that we saw Tom Baker live through in the 1970s and in reruns since, but that's true of Matt Smith and David Tennant and Jodie Whittaker, too -- they all traveled with Harry and Sarah and Leela and Romana, but that was regenerations ago, and they are and they aren't the same person that the fourth Doctor was. The nostalgic, emotional power of that scene in the Undergallery comes from Tom Baker being not a Doctor but being his Doctor. The fourth Doctor is older and looks different from how we remember him, it doesn't make sense, and that's okay. It's magic, and the scene is meant to be magical.

IMHO. YMMV. Etc. Etc.

Actually it was a good thing. In that one scene, Moffat sets the precedent on screen that the Doctor can become previous incarnations of himself, or previous faces. Of course this opens the doors for previous actors to regenerate into the Doctor if a show runner wanted to.

I've never seen any reason, honestly, why a Time Lord couldn't regenerate into a body like one previously worn. Regeneration is some sort of biological process, and the Doctor's form is determined by his multidimensional DNA, so the bodies are "hard-coded" to some extent. If a regeneration happens to bring out an "old" body, that shouldn't be surprising. What I would find surprising is if the new-old Time Lord behaved exactly as the old-old Time Lord.

In the future this may be necessary, or if the ratings slide even more, maybe Smith or Tennant will be chosen to return.

Before the series came back in 2005, Mark Gatiss suggested that Peter Davison, circa 2000, would have made a very interesting Doctor, one completely different than the character he played twenty years earlier.

If Tennant or Smith were cast as the Doctor again -- though I think that unlikely -- I'd want them to play the role differently. I'd want to see them make different choices, as much to surprise the audience as to find something new and interesting about the role for themselves that would justify accepting the role.

 

[starsuperion]

In my mind, the Curator is the fourth Doctor. I don't know how that's possible (though I have a theory that explains the pre-Hartnell Morbius Doctors, why Davison can be explicitly the fifth incarnation and Smith the thirteenth and final, and why the Time Scoop failed in "The Five Doctors"), but that is the Doctor who traveled in the TARDIS on our television screens in the 1970s, not one who happens to look like that Doctor. The scene with the Curator loses its emotional impact if it's a future Doctor. I mean, yes, a future Doctor lived, many lifetimes ago, all of the adventures that we saw Tom Baker live through in the 1970s and in reruns since, but that's true of Matt Smith and David Tennant and Jodie Whittaker, too -- they all traveled with Harry and Sarah and Leela and Romana, but that was regenerations ago, and they are and they aren't the same person that the fourth Doctor was. The nostalgic, emotional power of that scene in the Undergallery comes from Tom Baker being not a Doctor but being his Doctor. The fourth Doctor is older and looks different from how we remember him, it doesn't make sense, and that's okay. It's magic, and the scene is meant to be magical.

IMHO. YMMV. Etc. Etc.



I've never seen any reason, honestly, why a Time Lord couldn't regenerate into a body like one previously worn. Regeneration is some sort of biological process, and the Doctor's form is determined by his multidimensional DNA, so the bodies are "hard-coded" to some extent. If a regeneration happens to bring out an "old" body, that shouldn't be surprising. What I would find surprising is if the new-old Time Lord behaved exactly as the old-old Time Lord.



Before the series came back in 2005, Mark Gatiss suggested that Peter Davison, circa 2000, would have made a very interesting Doctor, one completely different than the character he played twenty years earlier.

If Tennant or Smith were cast as the Doctor again -- though I think that unlikely -- I'd want them to play the role differently. I'd want to see them make different choices, as much to surprise the audience as to find something new and interesting about the role for themselves that would justify accepting the role.

I completely agree. Both Tennant and Smith have grown as actors too since their tenure on Doctor Who, they may have a different take on the character and may have wanted to play him differently as well in hindsight. If given the opportunity to take on the role again at a later date, the interesting thing will be to see how they decided to do it.

 

[Christopher]

So bottom line, all canon is rewritable in doctor who, nothing is ever set in stone because time and space changes can occur. Timey-wimey seems appropriate. It's funny how canon like, oh well the Master has been established as a woman, the general and the corsair, so ergo the Doctor can be A woman as well., that's supposed to be hard core canon. But say the doctor could become a previous incarnation in the curator, and oh..canon isn't set in stone. It contradicts all the time..

So which is it?

It's a story. It's a work of make-believe meant for fun. So stop taking it so damn seriously. The Curator scene wasn't meant to be serious, or to be argued over. It was saying "Tom Baker is awesome, right?" That's its only significance.

 

[starsuperion]

It's a story. It's a work of make-believe meant for fun. So stop taking it so damn seriously. The Curator scene wasn't meant to be serious, or to be argued over. It was saying "Tom Baker is awesome, right?" That's its only significance.

But outside myself..it is being discussed seriously. Besides, this is fan discussion, we all know its fiction, we all know its not important to everday life, well..

Except those who see the need to make doctor who a commentary on social issues..which to your point, why go there, it's a story, work of fiction, why bring in modern issues into it then? Shouldn't it just be about the stories then a public service announcement and commentary on modern issues? Why get political and offend one segment of population to and I quote "make a statement"? What's that all about? It used to be about issues that revolved around the story. Allegories to modern issues, but told in universe.

I half expect to see Jodie taking on men, and joining the hash tag me too movement with sexual harrassment issues being bandied about in the stories.

2018 is gonna be nothing but political commentary and virtue signalling in the show. Series 10 had a great deal and foreshadows how Its gonna be. Its obvious, and if not, then I'll be shocked.

 

[Allyn Gibson]

I half expect to see Jodie taking on men, and joining the hash tag me too movement with sexual harrassment issues being bandied about in the stories.

2018 is gonna be nothing but political commentary and virtue signalling in the show. Series 10 had a great deal and foreshadows how Its gonna be. Its obvious, and if not, then I'll be shocked.

Going off-topic here, but I don't see Chibnall and Whittaker taking Doctor Who in that direction at all. Do I expect a unique stamp on the show? Sure. But I also expect something that has all the traditional Doctor Who hallmarks -- an eccentric time traveler super genius -- in a television show made for a mass audience aged four to ninety-four.

 

[Professor Zoom]

I half expect to see Jodie taking on men, and joining the hash tag me too movement with sexual harrassment issues being bandied about in the stories.

2018 is gonna be nothing but political commentary and virtue signalling in the show. Series 10 had a great deal and foreshadows how Its gonna be. Its obvious, and if not, then I'll be shocked.

 

[starsuperion]

Going off-topic here, but I don't see Chibnall and Whittaker taking Doctor Who in that direction at all. Do I expect a unique stamp on the show? Sure. But I also expect something that has all the traditional Doctor Who hallmarks -- an eccentric time traveler super genius -- in a television show made for a mass audience aged four to ninety-four.

If it goes that way, it would be great. I'm just skeptical. I wasn't ever really skeptical about the show before, except with Moffat's writing, but I gave it a pass to a certain extent. When we got to the Pandorica, the doctor's OMG I'm the best speech, along with the self centered stories based around the doctor effectively being superman, the on coming storm, etc.. I became disinterested, it kept being such a series, that Clara just made it worse, then Capaldi..we had more Clara, and less exploration. It was the exploration I missed about the show. Hartnell-Eccleston seemed to see new places, and tech and beings he's never seen before. So not only was the Doctor's companions in shock and awe, so too was the Doctor himself. Partly in Tennant-Capaldi, the Doctor almost seems to know every alien (once he figures out the mystery) and it seems and feels like the stories were just about him and his interpersonal relationships. The wonder and excitement was kinda gone.

Predictable..

 

[Professor Zoom]

Predictable..

Lol. Ditto.