The age of the antihero

[fireproof78]

Apparently not. In reading this thread it would seem that these guys be they hero or antihero have done everything without fault. Who would've thought, lol.

Who said that? What in the wide world of sports are you talking about? It seems to me that there is an expectation that everything in DISCO fits in to some mold that is not privied to everyone.

Starfleet had no reason to think the Shenzou had valuable intel. There is no indication that Starfleet protocol requires destruction of the ship. The battle left Starfleet licking its wounds and rebuilding, so pushing in to disputed territory would invite an attack they would not be prepared for.

tl:dr There is no precedent for Starfleet officers destroying their ship to prevent capture of technology by the enemy.

 

[zar]

Why don't you go back through this thread and there are several posts by different members regards what the enemy gained and had the potential to gain. I'm pretty sure there are references that you might be able to source a scene to. Especially regards Voq and L'Rell

Oh, the one that took place 6 months later. Right. No, I didn't miss that. Let's try this again.

So Saru -- acting captain of the Shenzhou -- wouldn't have destroyed his derelict ship unless he had good reason to believe it would be used against the Federation in the near future. What reason did he have to believe that?

Did they have any actual reason to do any of these things that doesn't rely on SIX MONTHS of hindsight and an amazing, unforeseen coincidence that ultimately didn't matter anyway?

so can you at least explain what REASON the crew had to think Shenzhou was about to be captured by the Klingons?

Without referencing future episodes, explain precisely why they should have "disabled the power core" of their defeated vessel. And, why did you not mention it back then?

For the 20th time (your number), tell us why this should have been expected. You know this now. Did you know this would happen when you watched episode 2? Yes or no.

 

[Refuge]

Who said that? What in the wide world of sports are you talking about? It seems to me that there is an expectation that everything in DISCO fits in to some mold that is not privied to everyone.

Starfleet had no reason to think the Shenzou had valuable intel. There is no indication that Starfleet protocol requires destruction of the ship. The battle left Starfleet licking its wounds and rebuilding, so pushing in to disputed territory would invite an attack they would not be prepared for.

tl:dr There is no precedent for Starfleet officers destroying their ship to prevent capture of technology by the enemy.

The Shenzhou had resources that were exploited by the enemy, who said it was just intel?

At any time she could have been destroyed, just as the Glenn and Buran were.

 

[Refuge]

Oh, the one that took place 6 months later. Right. No, I didn't miss that. Let's try this again.

So Saru -- acting captain of the Shenzhou -- wouldn't have destroyed his derelict ship unless he had good reason to believe it would be used against the Federation in the near future. What reason did he have to believe that?

Did they have any actual reason to do any of these things that doesn't rely on SIX MONTHS of hindsight and an amazing, unforeseen coincidence that ultimately didn't matter anyway?

so can you at least explain what REASON the crew had to think Shenzhou was about to be captured by the Klingons?

Without referencing future episodes, explain precisely why they should have "disabled the power core" of their defeated vessel. And, why did you not mention it back then?

For the 20th time (your number), tell us why this should have been expected. You know this now. Did you know this would happen when you watched episode 2? Yes or no.

You leave the enemy nothing. That is the reason. They might exploit your resources later as L'Rell and Voq did.

After episode two I assumed the Shenzhou was destroyed. It was a surprise to see it there later and a creepy one. I thought it was stupid to honest. Then there was mention of the dilithium unit and the telescope and Voq hiding out in it and bingo! It all made sense it needed to be left there as a prop.

 

[fireproof78]

The Shenzhou had resources that were exploited by the enemy, who said it was just intel?

At any time she could have been destroyed, just as the Glenn and Buran were.

Should the crew of the Shenzou forseen Klingon survivors? For all they knew, the Klingons were dead.

Buran was destroyed under different circumstances to the Shenzou. Not a 1-to-1 comparison.

The Glenn was destroyed to protect spore drive intel specifically related to its class. Also, there was a ship available to torpedo it. Again, not so with the Shenzou.

 

[zar]

You leave the enemy nothing. That is the reason. They might exploit you resources later as L'Rell and Voq did.

After episode two I assumed the Shenzhou was destroyed. It was a surprise to see it there later and a creepy one. I thought it was stupid to honest. Then there was mention of the dilithium unit and the telescope and Voq hiding out in it and bingo! It all made sense it needed to be left there as a prop.

I'm shocked, absolutely shocked, that you evaded my question again. I even gave you multiple choice! Hmm. Let me try a different question. Before you saw the Shenzhou, how did you feel about L'Rell and Voq scavenging the other Klingon ships to repair the sarcophagus?

 

[Refuge]

Should the crew of the Shenzou forseen Klingon survivors? For all they knew, the Klingons were dead.

Buran was destroyed under different circumstances to the Shenzou. Not a 1-to-1 comparison.

The Glenn was destroyed to protect spore drive intel specifically related to its class. Also, there was a ship available to torpedo it. Again, not so with the Shenzou.

Seriously, you think the crew of the Shenzhou didn't think there would be any Klingons left?? They should have stayed put then and done some cruising (by the way I am kidding just like I was about the heroes or antiheroes having no flaws ). You know given how clever Georgiou was about booby trapping the dead why didn't they booby trap the Shenzhou? I guess that would have been untoward. But how hard would it have been to set a detonation to rid the Shenzhou? It would have been doable and even if the reason was slight, there was still reason. You keep the advantage in war and for the twenty second time, give the enemy nothing to exploit.

 

[Refuge]

I'm shocked, absolutely shocked, that you evaded my question again. I even gave you multiple choice! Hmm. Let me try a different question. Before you saw the Shenzhou, how did you feel about L'Rell and Voq scavenging the other Klingon ships to repair the sarcophagus?

But I did answer. Maybe you are not asking clearly enough or more likely don't like my answer

 

[zar]

But how hard would it have been

 

[Refuge]

What the heck are you talking about? Almost anyone over 18 drives around in a car in the real world. Are you seriously under the impression that in Star Trek everyone "flies" around the universe with their own 1,000 ft starship? You must be thinking of the wrong Enterprise!


No one has shortages of it except of course the Klingons who were stranded in space without it for SIX WHOLE MONTHS!!!

I've been meaning bring that up too. "No one has shortages of it (Dilithium) except of course the Klingons who were stranded in space without it for SIX WHOLE MONTHS!!!"

That seriously was yet another reason to have the Shenzhou sitting out there like a big welcome mat.

 

[Refuge]

If they were left to drift for months in that area filled with debris, and with no one bothering to recover the power core, then that could only mean that the place was not kept secure by the Klingons or the Feds, and thus accessible to anyone to recover ship contents.

I've read all scenarios. The area was enemy territory. It was Federations space. It was Federation, then Klingon, then dead Klingon, then active Klingon. I tend to go with the scenario that it was basically abandoned and that at anytime Starfleet could have boarded the Shenzhou as did the Klingons. Or destroyed her.

 

[Mudd]

Oh, of course they would have scuttled the ship. This is nonsense.

 

[Refuge]

Oh, of course they would have scuttled the ship. This is nonsense.

I can't believe I have to say this. But a simple voice of reason... has emerged.

 

[zar]

Hatewatcher's Razor: When faced with multiple hypotheses, select the one with the most potential plot holes.

 

[fireproof78]

Seriously, you think the crew of the Shenzhou didn't think there would be any Klingons left?? They should have stayed put then and done some cruising (by the way I am kidding just like I was about the heroes or antiheroes having no flaws ). You know given how clever Georgiou was about booby trapping the dead why didn't they booby trap the Shenzhou? I guess that would have been untoward. But how hard would it have been to set a detonation to rid the Shenzhou? It would have been doable and even if the reason was slight, there was still reason. You keep the advantage in war and for the twenty second time, give the enemy nothing to exploit.

Yes, I do think the Shenzhou thought there were not any Klingons left, otherwise evacuation would have exposed them further.

Secondly, it has not been demonstrated that destruction of a Starfleet starship is standard protocol.

Hatewatcher's Razor: When faced with multiple hypotheses, select the one with the most potential plot holes.

Indeed.

 

[Mudd]

I don't hatewatch anything. I stopped watching this nothingburger awhile ago. Don't have to eat a whole egg to know that it's rotten.

These aren't hypotheses, they're various posters attempts to explain, defend or criticize glaring peculiarities in plotting. No one's under any compunction to assume better of this stuff than the evidence justifies.

 

[Psion]

Or they're making molehills and later claiming they found mountains.

 

[Mudd]

Or they're making molehills and later claiming they found mountains.

That would describe much of the praise for the show from the few million folks who watch it in this country.

 

[zar]

These aren't hypotheses, they're...attempts to explain

No one's under any compunction to assume better of this stuff than the evidence justifies.

The trouble is assumptions being passed off as evidence.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

I can't believe I have to say this. But a simple voice of reason... has emerged.

This post narrated by Morgan Freeman.