Not enough padding.
ok
And I don't think you can compare some extras to seven's starring knockers. Sure, there was some male eye candy but never as blatantly as it was with the female eye candy.
Let's talk about the elephant in the room, this series violates Roddenberry's vision big time
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And I don't think you can compare some extras to seven's starring knockers. Sure, there was some male eye candy but never as blatantly as it was with the female eye candy.
I think it does a disservice to reduce Seven's appeal to her clothing. In fact for her as a character to transcend that spoke for the writing of the role and the actress' ability. Of course she was brought on for in your face sex appeal, (women can be attracted to other women or at least admire each other so it wasn't just for teenage boys). Her catsuit was part of her 'look' but as a character she was not overly sexual. Seven was a strong presence.
Personally I was always felt Kes was wasted as a character. However B'Elanna and Janeway owned their roles with substance.
Michael is like a floater. She's a little bit here and a little bit there. Has all the background for a lead character but thus far hasn't owned it. Is it the writing or is it the acting? I don't know. Why is Lorca with less script more popular? As for roles for women I don't see Discovery being out of the ordinary. Of course women characters can die, death is equal opportunity. However losing Georgiou took us to the starship Discovery and a male lead. Losing Landry gave an opportunity to Tyler. I don't resent that (males) but just notice it. Cornwell was a surprise strong female character but she's B-string. That leaves Michael and... oh no... Tilly.
Personally I was always felt Kes was wasted as a character. However B'Elanna and Janeway owned their roles with substance.
Michael is like a floater. She's a little bit here and a little bit there. Has all the background for a lead character but thus far hasn't owned it. Is it the writing or is it the acting? I don't know. Why is Lorca with less script more popular? As for roles for women I don't see Discovery being out of the ordinary. Of course women characters can die, death is equal opportunity. However losing Georgiou took us to the starship Discovery and a male lead. Losing Landry gave an opportunity to Tyler. I don't resent that (males) but just notice it. Cornwell was a surprise strong female character but she's B-string. That leaves Michael and... oh no... Tilly.
- Seven was a horrifically derivative / cliched character dressed up in a catsuit.
- B'Elanna was Re-Worf, complete with the romance starting with another crew member.
- Janeway was the least interesting of all the Star Trek leads thus far.
Sorry. All very poor, derivative and uninspired characters.
This is my reaction to the above-that Michael doesn't have a chance. She will not be allowed to grow and mature on her own. She has a standard of being "damaged goods" and that is all she will ever be.
At least I have a better idea of were the criticism of Michael is coming from. Kirk can do wrong because he does right. Janeway is a strong female character so she does far better. Seven demonstrates personal growth so she automatically is more successful.
Michael is a prisoner, and always will be. Sad
While I can appreciate Seven as a character, her costuming and appearance will forever remain a struggle for me, as well as how special she became to the Borg Queen. I preferred B'Elanna's character growth though.
It's possible as a female I relate or expect a standard of 'role' to be afforded another female that would suit the standard for a male. Want to stress that I do not speak for any other female than myself. IF it is accepted that a male is a Captain, then in part it satisfies me that a female owns that role too. To me Janeway is perhaps the best of all the Star Trek captains. The others would have had a different journey through the Delta Quadrant. If it is accepted that a male is Chief Engineer, then it is satisfying to see B'Ellana half Klingon, half human own that role. Add to it her unique perspective of life. (In some ways Michael is more similar to this half Klingon woman than even comparing her with the more cool headed Seven).This is my reaction to the above-that Michael doesn't have a chance. She will not be allowed to grow and mature on her own. She has a standard of being "damaged goods" and that is all she will ever be.
At least I have a better idea of were the criticism of Michael is coming from. Kirk can do wrong because he does right. Janeway is a strong female character so she does far better. Seven demonstrates personal growth so she automatically is more successful.
Michael is a prisoner, and always will be. Sad
While I can appreciate Seven as a character, her costuming and appearance will forever remain a struggle for me, as well as how special she became to the Borg Queen. I preferred B'Elanna's character growth though.
I actually don't see Michael as being a prisoner and don't predict she will either keep that status or be incarcerated. Also I don't like her 'role' placement. I get Seven never had rank and took on being almost a lead herself, but Michael as a lead is lowly. Really lowly. She is what I would call uninspiring. I have liked many female characters on Trek but I'm struggling with Michael to even recognise her as a lead.
I guess this is the difference for me. There isn't a "lead" character. She is just a character, some one I am invested in seeing develop, even if I don't always "like" her or agree with all her decisions. I don't want her to be Kirk, Janeway, Picard, Sisko, B'Elanna, Seven, T'Pol, or any one else. I want her to grow and develop as Michael. I want to see her deal with her traumas and overcome them. That's more optimistic, more inspiring, more interesting than Janeway, who was always certain in her step and her choices. Michael is full of self-doubt, and I guess I identify with that much more than I realized at the outset.
Thus far, that has been enjoyable for me. Mileage will vary and all that.
And all the close-ups of her boobs.
Nothing wrong with sexy attractive people on screen,
But if we had the camera slowly going up and down Michael's semi- clad body or the camera zooming in on her boobs that would be more in alignment with GRs personal goals and vision.
Is that GRs vision that we are all saying Discovery falls short of? Haven't we moved on?
I know she was popular with a certain demographic, but I don’t really remember the portrayal you seem to. I am curious. This is presumably the same Trek where Kirk is an insubordinate womaniser, and Picard always runs from a fight if he can’t talk his way out of it?
Though you are likely correct about Genes Actual Dream.
G
Gul Sengosts
Guest
Sexiest moment in Trek history
I too disagree about Janeway. I don't think she was great, but "least interesting Star Trek lead" goes to Archer by a mile imo.
edit: Pre-Discovery, that is.
I'm not entirely embracing the notion that because a character is presented overtly looking sexual that they can't be more than that. Kind of find that attitude perpetuates the very thing it is supposed to be indignant about. *Oh look Seven or Troi are wearing a cat suit. Gosh that's sexist and maybe even misogynist. How dare they only have her there for ratings. She's so just a sex symbol - nothing else to see here folks!*
That is nonsense. Troi and Seven were more than that.
That is nonsense. Troi and Seven were more than that.
My frustration became that their costuming took away from their more, especially in marketing. Seven was very much a sex symbol and many people I knew simply didn't get past that fact.
yep, i know two dozen guys who not for a second even thought about what she actually did
Frankly I wish they had put her (Seven) in regular uniform, like she wore in 'Relativity'. It would've made sense in terms of the story to have her part of the crew. However because I re-watch as much as I do I'm kind of desensitised to her look in a way.
Yeah, when your a teen and that prefrontal cortex isn't developed there is a big difference between this:yep, i know two dozen guys who not for a second even thought about what she actually did
and this:
I completely agree. And, for me, her costume stands out to me every time I watch Voyager.
that can be wrong, too. if you ask me troy looked a lot sexier in a uniform than in that catsuit - it was just far too obvious.
Yeah, when your a teen and that prefrontal cortex isn't developed there is a big difference between this:
and this:
I completely agree. And, for me, her costume stands out to me every time I watch Voyager.
none of them a teen - most of them were my age (early 60s) and more or less nerds
Hmmm, so it's not affected by age, fascinatingnone of them a teen - most of them were my age (early 60s) and more or less nerds
My friends and I were teens at the time, so I probably shouldn't have been so ageist.
early 60s ment born in the early 60s, btw. where are you from - america?Hmmm, so it's not affected by age, fascinating
My friends and I were teens at the time, so I probably shouldn't have been so ageist.
