It's not bashing.
It's called "expressing an opinion." Writers are known to do this a lot.
MacFarlane's opinions of religion, science and reason are well-known.
Spoilers THE ORVILLE S1, E12: "MAD IDOLATRY" - SEASON FINALE
- Thread starter Mudd
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It's not bashing.
It's called "expressing an opinion." Writers are known to do this a lot.
MacFarlane's opinions of religion, science and reason are well-known.
Grrr, I really enjoyed the episode in a Dragon's Egg kind of way but your many suggestions in this thread would have improved the episode tenfold.
I think Klyden is used about the right amount. It would be a good idea to give him a job.
Moclans all love violent stuff, but that doesn't mean they're all at home on military vessels - this is a peacetime service, and despite Bortus' Worf-like stoicism we've seen no indication that Moclans have the temperament of Klingons or that as adults seek serious conflict for its own sake or for the sake of some violent ideology. Rather the opposite - they are all about as reserved and deadpan in demeanor as Spock.
I think the obvious way to see their culture is as an exaggeration(?) of stereotypically young male traits: a bunch of stentorian baritones, overgrown boys who'll spend all day happily playing shoot-em up games, blowing up shit in the backyard and laughing at each other when they get hurt playing contact sports. They're SuperBros.
Moclans all love violent stuff, but that doesn't mean they're all at home on military vessels - this is a peacetime service, and despite Bortus' Worf-like stoicism we've seen no indication that Moclans have the temperament of Klingons or that as adults seek serious conflict for its own sake or for the sake of some violent ideology. Rather the opposite - they are all about as reserved and deadpan in demeanor as Spock.
I think the obvious way to see their culture is as an exaggeration(?) of stereotypically young male traits: a bunch of stentorian baritones, overgrown boys who'll spend all day happily playing shoot-em up games, blowing up shit in the backyard and laughing at each other when they get hurt playing contact sports. They're SuperBros.
This is the exact kind of episode of ETNGER that I've always found pretentious and creatively effete. While some of the jokes helped a little, it wasn't enough.
It crossed a line of which, up to this point, the show has managed to stay on the better side.
*Up to now the show has managed to be more Life of Brian and less Who Whatevers the Whatchamacallits.
It crossed a line of which, up to this point, the show has managed to stay on the better side.
*Up to now the show has managed to be more Life of Brian and less Who Whatevers the Whatchamacallits.
Data did this in "Pen Pals". Picard was torn apart with what to do.....
Count me among those who were reminded of TNG "Who Watches the Watchers."
What was remarkable to me was that Isaac volunteered to stay on their planet for 700 years but remained unchanged for all that time. I can't imagine what it must be like for a human or a humanoid to live that long and be a part of a civilization's history, but he is an artificial lifeform, so according to him seven centuries could very well be seven seconds. Still he must've been damaged at some point or needed parts replacements, or even upgrades. Yet he didn't seem to have an impact on the aliens, which progressed naturally from that point.
What was remarkable to me was that Isaac volunteered to stay on their planet for 700 years but remained unchanged for all that time. I can't imagine what it must be like for a human or a humanoid to live that long and be a part of a civilization's history, but he is an artificial lifeform, so according to him seven centuries could very well be seven seconds. Still he must've been damaged at some point or needed parts replacements, or even upgrades. Yet he didn't seem to have an impact on the aliens, which progressed naturally from that point.
I suspect it was mostly plot expediency, which there was a lot of in the episode anyway. After all, even in the 14th century I doubt just anyone could come in off the streets, enter the Vatican and stroll directly to the Pope's chamber without anyone intercepting them. But hey, it helps the plot move along.
It was explained that it wasn't a good idea to send Kelly down since society had progressed to the point where she would more likely be treated as a crazy person and thrown into an asylum. At least with Isaac there's empirical evidence he isn't human or whatever they call themselves which would open the door for discussions to begin.
Did anyone else expect Isaac to come back as just a head? It did give them an opportunity to change his look.
I'm with most of you, it was underwhelming. Nothing egregious (though, Ensign Turco, was it? That part kind of put a chink in the armor of the "This is the wholesome show I can watch with my kids" argument). Very predictable. I'm not big on the Mercer/Kelly stuff. It seems the show doesn't know if they want to go with a "Will they/won't they vibe" or just avoid the issue. I'm not in the "everything they do is a Star Trek reference camp," but it does seem reminiscent of the Picard/Crusher relationship where they were friends with hints that more could be developed, but never anything overt or lasting. Kelly and Mercer do have a history together, but it seems just that...history.
With some minor retooling, maybe I'll be more pro-Orville in the second season. My 13 year old son watched part of the episode with me. It's the first he's seen of the show and even he questioned if they were trying to be a comedy or a drama. I told him that I don't think they know. A better balance would definitely help. The humor now underscores the more dramatic moments and vice versa. Scrubs did that really nicely. They planted themselves firmly in the comedy category, but could come through with an emotional/bring you to tears punch every once in a while.
I know a lot of people like it because it hits the TNG era nostalgia hard, but I'm hoping they pull away from that a little and try to be their own things more next season.
I'm with most of you, it was underwhelming. Nothing egregious (though, Ensign Turco, was it? That part kind of put a chink in the armor of the "This is the wholesome show I can watch with my kids" argument). Very predictable. I'm not big on the Mercer/Kelly stuff. It seems the show doesn't know if they want to go with a "Will they/won't they vibe" or just avoid the issue. I'm not in the "everything they do is a Star Trek reference camp," but it does seem reminiscent of the Picard/Crusher relationship where they were friends with hints that more could be developed, but never anything overt or lasting. Kelly and Mercer do have a history together, but it seems just that...history.
With some minor retooling, maybe I'll be more pro-Orville in the second season. My 13 year old son watched part of the episode with me. It's the first he's seen of the show and even he questioned if they were trying to be a comedy or a drama. I told him that I don't think they know. A better balance would definitely help. The humor now underscores the more dramatic moments and vice versa. Scrubs did that really nicely. They planted themselves firmly in the comedy category, but could come through with an emotional/bring you to tears punch every once in a while.
I know a lot of people like it because it hits the TNG era nostalgia hard, but I'm hoping they pull away from that a little and try to be their own things more next season.
My wife and I agreed that these people must have a really good visual memory.
I forget how long the planet stays in our universe, but they were there for three 11-day jumps, so they've been sitting there for over a month. Didn't that admiral say something about sending a science ship to follow up?
And speaking of the admiral, I'm wondering if there's going to be any lasting consequences for the crew, especially since they went back down to the planet after being ordered not to. I'm sure there will still be some reprimands, but the inhabitants of the planet may put in a good word for them.
As for the most advanced version of those people, their glowing white outfits reminded me a lot of the Ship of Lights and Apollo's white uniform in the original BSG.
So, who's up for a game of Latchcomb?
I expected Marc Jackson to make an appearance as Issac in human form. It is interesting that nothing happened to him in 700 years. One would think the advancement of technology would have changed him or his circuits would get rusty.
It was OK
It did remind me of the already mentioned TNG & VOY episodes.
We finally saw a transporter effect.
Everyone should worship Kelly. I was wondering how long it will take Macfarlane to write a romantic scene with Adrianne Palicki.
Braga did more directing than writing (4 episodes vs 1) this season.
So was this always intended to be the season finale, or the episode that got moved to second season was the original season finale?
It did remind me of the already mentioned TNG & VOY episodes.
We finally saw a transporter effect.
Everyone should worship Kelly. I was wondering how long it will take Macfarlane to write a romantic scene with Adrianne Palicki.
Braga did more directing than writing (4 episodes vs 1) this season.
So was this always intended to be the season finale, or the episode that got moved to second season was the original season finale?
This was another great episode. It definitely evoked "Who Watches The Watchers," which is one of my all-time favorite Trek episodes.
The opening sequence of Mercer trying to find a drinking buddy was great. It's kind of a shame that they couldn't have included Claire, Alara, and Isaac, just to close out the season with a peek at everyone in their down time. I got a kick out of the suspicious smoke in John's quarters, and appreciated the open-shirted ensign, but I wonder if that scene foreshadows a coming divide between John and Gordon, thanks to his promotion. And, of course, the game with Bortus and Klyden was hilarious.
The main plot was wonderful, and really delivered the kind of positive message that Trek used to be known for-- and both the interphasic planet and Isaac's casual volunteering to go on a 700-year diplomatic mission were great sense-of-wonder ideas. The episode really hit all the marks. The moral of the story, that religion is an unavoidable, but survivable, symptom of civilizational adolescence, was both uplifting and very timely. And the glimpse of the "future" civilization, from the alien megastructures (which I do think would have worked better in soothing blue than ominous green) to that silvery ship to the glowing white robes, was very nice.
The only real plot hole-- or rather, unaddressed point, unless I missed something-- was that this planet will continue to appear every eleven days. So what will the Planetary Union science ship encounter when it arrives? They should have thrown in some line about the aliens using their technology to prevent further crossovers.
Another thing this episode demonstrated was perfect examples of good Orville humor versus awkward Orville humor. Moclan party game: Good. Admiral still on the phone: Awkward (although I did laugh).
The relationship between Mercer and Grayson reached a good point for the season finale. It was typical of the mature writing, so rare in the media these days, that they would come to this conclusion based on a story element from the main plot. I still think they will eventually get back together and that their time apart will ultimately prove necessary to solidify their relationship. The "Menagerie" episode demonstrated that their youthful marriage probably would have imploded under any circumstances, but we've already seen them both grow a lot in one season. Hopefully that will continue.
The opening sequence of Mercer trying to find a drinking buddy was great. It's kind of a shame that they couldn't have included Claire, Alara, and Isaac, just to close out the season with a peek at everyone in their down time. I got a kick out of the suspicious smoke in John's quarters, and appreciated the open-shirted ensign, but I wonder if that scene foreshadows a coming divide between John and Gordon, thanks to his promotion. And, of course, the game with Bortus and Klyden was hilarious.
The main plot was wonderful, and really delivered the kind of positive message that Trek used to be known for-- and both the interphasic planet and Isaac's casual volunteering to go on a 700-year diplomatic mission were great sense-of-wonder ideas. The episode really hit all the marks. The moral of the story, that religion is an unavoidable, but survivable, symptom of civilizational adolescence, was both uplifting and very timely. And the glimpse of the "future" civilization, from the alien megastructures (which I do think would have worked better in soothing blue than ominous green) to that silvery ship to the glowing white robes, was very nice.
The only real plot hole-- or rather, unaddressed point, unless I missed something-- was that this planet will continue to appear every eleven days. So what will the Planetary Union science ship encounter when it arrives? They should have thrown in some line about the aliens using their technology to prevent further crossovers.
Another thing this episode demonstrated was perfect examples of good Orville humor versus awkward Orville humor. Moclan party game: Good. Admiral still on the phone: Awkward (although I did laugh).
The relationship between Mercer and Grayson reached a good point for the season finale. It was typical of the mature writing, so rare in the media these days, that they would come to this conclusion based on a story element from the main plot. I still think they will eventually get back together and that their time apart will ultimately prove necessary to solidify their relationship. The "Menagerie" episode demonstrated that their youthful marriage probably would have imploded under any circumstances, but we've already seen them both grow a lot in one season. Hopefully that will continue.
I think they're just having the usual marital difficulty a new child brings to the table. A co-worker recently had his first child and he's even talked about the rough patch it causes between him and his wife in dividing up taking care of the child, doing their own jobs, and finding time for their own relationship.
A year for them was 11 days.
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