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Spoilers THE ORVILLE S1, E12: "MAD IDOLATRY" - SEASON FINALE

Rate the episode:

  • ***** Excellent

    Votes: 26 36.1%

  • ****

    Votes: 27 37.5%

  • ***

    Votes: 13 18.1%

  • **

    Votes: 6 8.3%

  • * Fear the banana

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Total voters
    72
Another thought I had: when she went back and talked to the pope character, instead of trying to convince him that she was human, why not play along and give the culture a set of "10 commandments" to move the culture away from some of the primitive practices? She could have ordered them to stop cutting suspected criminals, ordered them to stop putting heretics to death and given the culture a more just legal system. I know the characters don't like to play god but she had already interfered and was planning to interfere again, so why not try to bring some good from it? If a culture is not ready yet to accept the full truth, (that Kelly was a mere mortal human), why not operate within those parameters, until they are ready?
 
Serveaux said:
I had the same thought. A little too dark for them, I suspect.

"Mad Idolatry" might as well be a swipe at that other show's bizarre and continual fixation on their Prime Directive.:lol:
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Not really. Everyone agrees that avoiding contamination is the best route and that it's a wise policy in both Universes. But, what do you do when there is accidental contamination?
 
After watching this episode, it made me wonder what the actual finale was supposed to be.

Overall I enjoyed the first season so much and look forward to more. :)
 
Mr Awe said:
But, what do you do when there is accidental contamination?
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Let it go and move on. Going back to the planet to try to fix it, is just interfering with the planet even more. Obviously, seeing people kill each other for heresy is really bad in the moment, but things would have worked themselves out over the span of centuries.
 
ChasFink said:
  • We need an explanation of why, after a brief meeting with a handful of people in a bronze age society, the image of Kelly is so accurate and universal 700 years later that she is instantly recognized as the one true Kelly and not an impostor. After all, I wouldn't recognize Jesus if he walked down my street. I can think of at least three ways this could have been done.
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This was my main WTF.

I'm not a fan of "they should explain it." either the action makes sense and is plausible within a series's narrative framework or not. In this rare instance I thought "NOT."

The second thing that strained my credulity has also been mentioned uptopic - how does a single isolated miracle witnessed by a couple of people form the basis of an entirely new, world-changing belief system?

Well, it doesn't. People, if not the original witnesses but everyone else, incorporate the story (if it's widely believed) into their own existing religious and mythic structures. These people doubtless already had some religious ideas - their distant descendants go so far as to point out the putative inevitability of that for cultures up to a certain point in development - and at most she'd be Saint Kelly and she'd be presented as a representative of what deity or pantheon they already worshipped.

Human religions first developed many millennia before our European Bronze Age. No way these folks were sitting around waiting for the Chariot of the Gods to descend and point the way for them.
 
Romulan_spy said:
Let it go and move on. Going back to the planet to try to fix it, is just interfering with the planet even more. Obviously, seeing people kill each other for heresy is really bad in the moment, but things would have worked themselves out over the span of centuries.
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I'd agree with that. Returning was a mistake.
 
Serveaux said:
The second thing that strained my credulity has also been mentioned uptopic - how does a single isolated miracle witnessed by a couple of people form the basis of an entirely new, world-changing belief system?
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Well, this episode commits the same mistake that Star Trek has committed many times whereby an entire civilization is reduced to just one town. I can see that one small town believing in Kelly as some type of deity but there should be other towns on other continents with their own separate religions that would not have been affected at all by what Kelly did. The Kelly religion should not be the only religion on the planet.
 
Serveaux said:
This was my main WTF.
I'm not a fan of "they should explain it." either the action makes sense and is plausible within a series's narrative framework or not. In this rare instance I thought "NOT."
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Two of my three explanations would easily meet your criteria.
  1. The natives don't look exactly human, so the look of a human equals the look of the true Kelly.
  2. Kelly leaves behind an artifact/relic that can't be produced locally, then brings another with her.
  3. A little explaining: memory doesn't work the same for these people, and is more literally photographic - so the healed girl can help an artist to recreate exactly what Kelly looks like.
However, Serveaux, I politely disagree that saint is as high as she could rise. Polytheistic religions can incorporate elements of history or other religions. If they accepted Kelly as a god, the only one with a tangible history, she might someday rise to be the god.
 
I loved this episode. I was wanting Ed and Kelly to get back together, because it's clear on some level they are still very much in love. It's bittersweet, though, because in order for them to be happy, their work has to suffer, and it puts their careers in jeopardy, along with the lives of others. So they have to remain apart for the benefit of their work, and for the people around them, and that sucks.

Loved the terrifying game Ed plays with Bortus, and Klyden. "Latchcomb!" :lol:

I like the notion that everyone got used to Isaac, and that the planet developed its culture organically. The commentary on how religion isn't so much a hindrance as a stepping stone seems reasonable to me.

It's a bit of a weak episode to finish on, as I think it would be much suited as a middle of the season episode. Still, I enjoyed it, love the series, and can't wait for season 2.

Sheep said:
I really liked the premise of the episode but had a hard time trying to wrap my head around how stupid Kelly was during the initial encounter. I get that the Orville crew aren't the best and brightest of the Union but I'm going to venture a guess that healing a child of a non-fatal wound is a serious offense of Union's equivalent of the prime directive which probably includes "don't mess with ancient civilizations". The cynic in me also thinks a 21st century society would be less than welcoming and accepting of an alien android showing up on their doorstep.

The crew just walked all over the prime directive trying to right their wrongs and make Kelly feel better which didn't sit right with me.
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They behaved like human beings. I would have helped the little girl. She fell and smacked her head on a rock. The gash on her head was sizeable. This is another reason I like The Orville. These people screw up, even when they're just trying to do the right thing.
 
Serveaux said:
The second thing that strained my credulity has also been mentioned uptopic - how does a single isolated miracle witnessed by a couple of people form the basis of an entirely new, world-changing belief system?
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The statue 700 years later included the piping on her uniform sleeves, for Kelly's sake! :lol:
 
King Bob! said:
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Not to get off topic, but Christianity did not start because Jesus did one isolated miracle witnessed by only a couple people. Jesus' ministry lasted 3 years where he traveled all over the nation of Israel. Thousands of people saw him, heard him and witnessed many, many different miracles. So there was a lot more than just an isolated miracle to cause the founding of Christianity. Also, Christianity started as a sect of Judaism so there was already a pre-existing religion to support it. It did not start in a vacuum. So Kelly starting a world wide religion from just one act of healing a little girl is unlikely IMO.
 
Romulan_spy said:
Not to get off topic, but Christianity did not start because Jesus did one isolated miracle witnessed by only a couple people. Jesus' ministry lasted 3 years where he traveled all over the nation of Israel. Thousands of people saw him, heard him and witnessed many, many different miracles. So there was a lot more than just an isolated miracle to cause the founding of Christianity. Also, Christianity started as a sect of Judaism so there was already a pre-existing religion to support it. It did not start in a vacuum. So Kelly starting a world wide religion from just one act of healing a little girl is unlikely IMO.
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I agree. Just a funny bit from Family Guy.
 
I have the same problem with the episode's essential conceits concerning cultural evolution and medievalism (indeed, I wrote them this morning, but deleted when I realized I got some facts wrong). But I have to say that the opening was BRILLIANT! For all those who complain that this is TNG redux, the D would never have that level of camaraderie. And what the hell was John wearing?! Are we supposed to think he had no pants on? And the ensign waving away the smoke? And could Bortus and Klyden be funnier? I lost it when Klyden described the poo drink.

I'll say it again: Bortus and Klyden need their own show.
 
I should have guessed when that promo said one would sacrifice himself, that that didn't mean sacrifice in terms of death.

They should have had an ensign with them named Palmer.


The episode is basically just a mess of ST: TNG's "Who Watches the Watchers?" and Voyager's "Blink of an Eye", but it still works while trying to do it's own take on that. Having said that, this is the second of third bashing of religion in just twelve episodes -- it's old, especially this quickly.
 
I wish they had used more creativity with the religious presentation.
You could see it coming a mile off but to use the white Man dressed in white in the tall white mitre. Give me a break.
I was hoping for some creativity as to the religious interpretation rather than just doing the Pope et. Al.
Possibly a woman religious leader? After all the "healer" was a woman.
Various colors used for the 'sacred' clothing?
Possibly a settee instead of the Papal chair?
I think they just wanted to rush through the scene so they could concentrate on the last scene(s)/message.
I'm fine with the message in the context of the series.
However this episode felt rushed and not well thought out.
 
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