Let's talk about the elephant in the room, this series violates Roddenberry's vision big time

[fireproof78]

so why didn't starfleet incorporate this stuff into new designs? because they nearly lost and ordered their warfs to push out existing types as replacements for the losses. if you need a reason why nobody ever mentioned discovery you simply need to blow her up with all hands lost in the grand finale - i admit that would be something totally new to the franchise

I think that would be a great out and would be very interesting.

 

[oberth]

And Lorca is just the man to do it!

i thought of t'kuvma's albino friend running a suicide mission just seconds after the klingon neutral zone has been established and lorca has been promoted to rear admiral (lower half*)

---
* i do know that's called commodore in star trek

 

[Refuge]

i thought of t'kuvma's albino friend running a suicide mission just seconds after the klingon neutral zone has been established and lorca has been promoted to rear admiral (lower half*)

---
* i do know that's called commodore in star trek

There's some pretty volatile characters on this show!

 

[MakeshiftPython]

I'm pretty sure Burnham will be exonerated at some point in the show.

And rightfully.

 

[cultcross]

I'm pretty sure Burnham will be exonerated at some point in the show.

And rightfully.

That's my prediction too - perhaps sentenced to time served for what she did do, i.e. hold a phaser on her CO, mitigated by her mental state at the time.

 

[INACTIVERedDwarf]

I was watching TOS: "The Savage Curtain" (a Roddenberry script) yesterday and, being in a mindset that was looking for this kind of message, I was again reminded of the depth of the ideas in Star Trek.

"We've each learned to be delighted with what we are." -- Kirk

"In our century, we've learned not to fear words." -- Uhura

"I am pleased to see that we have differences.
May we together become greater than the sum of both of us." -- Surak​

To paraphrase an article I read recently, alienation is about communication, who gets to communicate, who doesn't, and the cost when you are denied that ability to connect. Whether it's a story about bullies picking on a geeky kid, or some sexual or racial group being denied their full identity, and having to hide themselves. The Savage Curtain shows a future in which people have learned to be delighted in difference, confident in their own identity and that of others. Who better than Abraham Lincoln and Surak to convey this.

It would be nice to see some Vulcans who believe as Surak did.

 

[INACTIVERedDwarf]

It's a little bit off topic, but here is something Guillermo Del Toro wrote about why modern monster movies fail:

He believes there’s too much emphasis on dissecting the genre, with directors trying, and largely failing, to circumvent the genre’s common tropes rather than stepping back and creating an enjoyable scary movie:

"I think that there is a postmodern attitude towards the genre that tries to disarm or disassemble the genre in a postmodern way and I think that when you approach characters with earnest love, it’s a lot less safe because you’re not above the material. You are high on your own supply and it’s easier to be ironic, so I think that’s part of it."​

And that, is what I feel is wrong with every sci-fi adaptation of a classic property that fails. People have pointed out all the good in JJ Abrams Star Trek adaptations, but fundamentally, what a lot of people felt was that his material was aloof and ironic, instead of earnestly loving Star Trek without irony.

I thought this was pertinent to the thread as there are people who don't love TOS or Star Trek for what it is, and want to make it something else - whether Battlestar Galactica or whatever - there is nothing wrong with Star Trek's stylistic choices or philosophy.

 

[The Mighty Monkey of Mim]

I thought this was pertinent to the thread as there are people who don't love TOS or Star Trek for what it is

Speaking only for myself here, I absolutely do, and always have. I'm re-watching TOS right now, and continuing to love and enjoy it for what it is, despite all the very prominent flaws that severely date it—and I don't merely mean its production design and special effects, here.

I just don't need or want more of the same in 2017. I like that DSC reflects our times every bit as much as TOS reflected its day. They give different perspectives, and complement each other.

-MMoM

 

[Ovation]

They give different perspectives, and complement each other.

Outrageous. How dare you. How DARE you, sir! How can you bring reasonable thought and nuance to such a place. Outrageous!!!

 

[cultcross]

Warning for nuance. Comments to pm.

 

[fireproof78]

^^ Flag on the play.

I just don't need or want more of the same in 2017. I like that DSC reflects our times every bit as much as TOS reflected its day. They give different perspectives, and complement each other.

I agree with this point, largely because I think the world is a big enough place to have multiple incarnations and perspectives on Star Trek. Abrams Trek feels very much like Star Trek to me, while being a very contemporary take and addressing characters arcs that feel very relevant.

DISCO is a similar way, addressing the moral complexities of the current day and age, and working towards optimistic solutions, rather than the nihilism that permeates so many other stories. Star Trek needs to be large enough for each individual to approach it and interact with it without feeling forced to accept every little detail.

Abrams Trek isn't for you? That's fine, there's plenty others out there.

My dad hasn't watched a frame past TNG other than Kelvin Trek and the TOS films. My wife isn't a scifi fan and yet thoroughly enjoys DS9. A lot of my friends in high school couldn't stand TOS but loved TNG and beyond.

Star Trek is big enough to allow for TOS all the way through DISCO, warts, discontinuity and all.

 

[cultcross]

^ Flag on the play.

*Googles*

Now 3% more American.

 

[fireproof78]

*Googles*

Now 3% more American.

Yellow card?

 

[Tallguy]

Um... I.... ???

 

[oberth]

*Googles*

Now 3% more American.

Yellow card?

hä? guys be nice and explain it to some bloody foreigner

 

[cultcross]

Both phrases indicate a penalty in our respective footballs

 

[Refuge]

It's a little bit off topic, but here is something Guillermo Del Toro wrote about why modern monster movies fail:

He believes there’s too much emphasis on dissecting the genre, with directors trying, and largely failing, to circumvent the genre’s common tropes rather than stepping back and creating an enjoyable scary movie:

"I think that there is a postmodern attitude towards the genre that tries to disarm or disassemble the genre in a postmodern way and I think that when you approach characters with earnest love, it’s a lot less safe because you’re not above the material. You are high on your own supply and it’s easier to be ironic, so I think that’s part of it."​

And that, is what I feel is wrong with every sci-fi adaptation of a classic property that fails. People have pointed out all the good in JJ Abrams Star Trek adaptations, but fundamentally, what a lot of people felt was that his material was aloof and ironic, instead of earnestly loving Star Trek without irony.

I thought this was pertinent to the thread as there are people who don't love TOS or Star Trek for what it is, and want to make it something else - whether Battlestar Galactica or whatever - there is nothing wrong with Star Trek's stylistic choices or philosophy.

That's actually quite relevant to Discovery. You can see it as a production. It's shout out to wanting to fit a modern Trek within a darker genre. The tortured Captain, the disturbed lead in Michael. The overly masked Klingons with subtitles. The aesthetic all blue and gray. It is very much like someone has picked up the playlist of what makes for current TV trends and fitted Discovery in it.

 

[fireproof78]

That's actually quite relevant to Discovery. You can see it as a production. It's shout out to wanting to fit a modern Trek within a darker genre. The tortured Captain, the disturbed lead in Michael. The overly masked Klingons with subtitles. The aesthetic all blue and gray. It is very much like someone has picked up the playlist of what makes for current TV trends and fitted Discovery in it.

And Star Trek has done it in the past, just not in a full length, serialized, version as Discovery is.

Doesn't make it good or bad. It just is.

 

[oberth]

Both phrases indicate a penalty in our respective footballs

so who of you both stands for proper football and who for a game of american handegg?

 

[cultcross]

Is there a 'none of the above' option?