Spoilers Justice League - Grading and Discussion
- Thread starter dahj
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I'm surprised WB didn't use mid credit scenes in previous movies to set up more of the JL especially the Mother Boxes. Why not have a mid credit scene for Wonder Woman showing the Mother Box being guarded by the Amazons and then the box begins to vibrate. BvS certainly could of benefited from introducing Steppenwolf first in the theatrical movie version but to expand upon that in a mid credit scene.
I've also been thinking what I would change from this movie, working closely with the script we got and there are some changes IMO that would of helped though top of the list is WB having to remove their idiotic time limit that did more damage than good...
* Open the movie with the flashback to the Armies of Earth v the forces of Steppenwolf and then go into the music lead montage that we got.
* Change the Batman opening to having him investigating multiple disappearances and reports of strange creatures. Initial kidnappings in Gotham and that leads him to Metropolis, where we first meet him in this movie. I would set up the scene by showing a Star Labs employee at a facility they have at the crashed ship from MoS/BvS and they are experimenting on a Mother Box. The employee coming off his shift and on his way home is chased by an a Parademon through some back streets who can sense he has been near a Mother Box and then cue Batman. This would still lead to Batman knowing his fears of an invasion is coming to pass and would seek Diana who agrees to try and find Cyborg while Bruce locates Aquaman & Barry Allen.
* The Batman/Aquaman scene can go the same way though I would change the Cyborg one just a little with Diana. I would want Cyborg to reference that he was killed when the Mother Box was used in an experiment in Central City called the Particle Accelerator and I would want to see a flashback of this. We already know thanks to BvS that his father secretly used the Mother Box to bring him back after though the box was transferred to the Kryptonian ship site after to see if they could interface the two technologies so that's why Cyborg and his dad are now in Metropolis.
* I'd like to see a flashback scene showing Barry get hit by the lighting as well expanding upon what we saw from Cyborg earlier but keep the rest of the scene as it was. The Brunch thing was a little odd I felt but the joke later with Superman saves it, so leave it in.
* This is where I would expand upon Steppenwolf and the Mother Boxes showing exactly why he has chosen to return at this point. The Mother Box being used in the particle accelerator incident and then later to save Ray Fisher activated them and were like a homing beacon to Apokolips. Parademons were dispatched as a scouting party, which lead to the events of Steppenwolf using Lex to try and kill Superman and lure out any other heroes in the process. With Superman dead, No Lanterns coming to the aid of Earth and the Amazons/Atlanteans also out of sight, Darkseid chose to send Steppenwolf to retrieve the Mother Boxes and as his reward he would be granted dominion over Earth and his banishment from Apokolips for his previous failure would also be lifted. I would have Darkseid speak to Steppenwolf in the movie but not seen.
* Steppenwolf takes the two boxes as we saw and then is searching for the 3rd one as I would show Cyborg breaking into the Star Labs facility to take possession of the 3rd Mother Box after his father is kidnapped. Cyborg links up with the team as we saw and the battle in Gotham proceeds as we saw.
* Darkseid & Steppenwolf become aware that the League attempt to bring back Superman and Steppenwolf is ordered to take back the 3rd box and bring Superman into his army. As the team attempt to bring back Superman I would have Steppenwolf attack them and channel his own powers and by extension Darkseid's through the Mother Box and Superman awakens with the black suit and a beard
* The traumatic events of his death playing through his head along with his encounter with Bruce in BvS, the fight with Zod, every dark thing he has seen or experienced as Darkseid own influence flows through his body along with the fact his own memories are a jumble mess leads to a out of control Superman battling the League just like we saw but it should be longer IMO. Each member of the JL laid flat out by Superman and Clark asking Batman does he bleed (I loved that line) before Lois enters the stage resting Clark free of Darkseid influence but he would still be confused and fly away on his own to the farm.
* The team recover and their bits would largely play out as we saw with Bruce trying to urge Diana to lead the team and his confession to Alfred that Superman was always more human than him and he believes Superman will come back (hinting at the line from the trailer when Alfred tells someone off-screen "he said you would come").
* Clark back at the farm walking around the lands and the house, his memories trying to piece together. Clark looking at his reflection and saying this isn't my face. Lois arrives later to see a clean shaven Clark standing in the field and that scene pretty much plays out as we saw.
* The team attacks Steppenwolf in Russia and that would go the same though I would show Clark arriving at the Bat-Cave where Alfred gives him his Superman costume that Bruce had in storage and tells Clark, where the team have gone.
The rest of the film would play out as we saw.
So they were my changes
I've also been thinking what I would change from this movie, working closely with the script we got and there are some changes IMO that would of helped though top of the list is WB having to remove their idiotic time limit that did more damage than good...
* Open the movie with the flashback to the Armies of Earth v the forces of Steppenwolf and then go into the music lead montage that we got.
* Change the Batman opening to having him investigating multiple disappearances and reports of strange creatures. Initial kidnappings in Gotham and that leads him to Metropolis, where we first meet him in this movie. I would set up the scene by showing a Star Labs employee at a facility they have at the crashed ship from MoS/BvS and they are experimenting on a Mother Box. The employee coming off his shift and on his way home is chased by an a Parademon through some back streets who can sense he has been near a Mother Box and then cue Batman. This would still lead to Batman knowing his fears of an invasion is coming to pass and would seek Diana who agrees to try and find Cyborg while Bruce locates Aquaman & Barry Allen.
* The Batman/Aquaman scene can go the same way though I would change the Cyborg one just a little with Diana. I would want Cyborg to reference that he was killed when the Mother Box was used in an experiment in Central City called the Particle Accelerator and I would want to see a flashback of this. We already know thanks to BvS that his father secretly used the Mother Box to bring him back after though the box was transferred to the Kryptonian ship site after to see if they could interface the two technologies so that's why Cyborg and his dad are now in Metropolis.
* I'd like to see a flashback scene showing Barry get hit by the lighting as well expanding upon what we saw from Cyborg earlier but keep the rest of the scene as it was. The Brunch thing was a little odd I felt but the joke later with Superman saves it, so leave it in.
* This is where I would expand upon Steppenwolf and the Mother Boxes showing exactly why he has chosen to return at this point. The Mother Box being used in the particle accelerator incident and then later to save Ray Fisher activated them and were like a homing beacon to Apokolips. Parademons were dispatched as a scouting party, which lead to the events of Steppenwolf using Lex to try and kill Superman and lure out any other heroes in the process. With Superman dead, No Lanterns coming to the aid of Earth and the Amazons/Atlanteans also out of sight, Darkseid chose to send Steppenwolf to retrieve the Mother Boxes and as his reward he would be granted dominion over Earth and his banishment from Apokolips for his previous failure would also be lifted. I would have Darkseid speak to Steppenwolf in the movie but not seen.
* Steppenwolf takes the two boxes as we saw and then is searching for the 3rd one as I would show Cyborg breaking into the Star Labs facility to take possession of the 3rd Mother Box after his father is kidnapped. Cyborg links up with the team as we saw and the battle in Gotham proceeds as we saw.
* Darkseid & Steppenwolf become aware that the League attempt to bring back Superman and Steppenwolf is ordered to take back the 3rd box and bring Superman into his army. As the team attempt to bring back Superman I would have Steppenwolf attack them and channel his own powers and by extension Darkseid's through the Mother Box and Superman awakens with the black suit and a beard
* The traumatic events of his death playing through his head along with his encounter with Bruce in BvS, the fight with Zod, every dark thing he has seen or experienced as Darkseid own influence flows through his body along with the fact his own memories are a jumble mess leads to a out of control Superman battling the League just like we saw but it should be longer IMO. Each member of the JL laid flat out by Superman and Clark asking Batman does he bleed (I loved that line) before Lois enters the stage resting Clark free of Darkseid influence but he would still be confused and fly away on his own to the farm.
* The team recover and their bits would largely play out as we saw with Bruce trying to urge Diana to lead the team and his confession to Alfred that Superman was always more human than him and he believes Superman will come back (hinting at the line from the trailer when Alfred tells someone off-screen "he said you would come").
* Clark back at the farm walking around the lands and the house, his memories trying to piece together. Clark looking at his reflection and saying this isn't my face. Lois arrives later to see a clean shaven
Clark standing in the field and that scene pretty much plays out as we saw.* The team attacks Steppenwolf in Russia and that would go the same though I would show Clark arriving at the Bat-Cave where Alfred gives him his Superman costume that Bruce had in storage and tells Clark, where the team have gone.
The rest of the film would play out as we saw.
So they were my changes
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Not bad suggestions. Putting the Armies of Earth scene at the front of the film though would make it highly evocative of the opening scene in 'Fellowship of the Ring' that Cate Blanchett narrated.I'm surprised WB didn't use mid credit scenes in previous movies to set up more of the JL especially the Mother Boxes. Why not have a mid credit scene for Wonder Woman showing the Mother Box being guarded by the Amazons and then the box begins to vibrate. BvS certainly could of benefited from introducing Steppenwolf first in the theatrical movie version but to expand upon that in a mid credit scene.
I've also been thinking what I would change from this movie, working closely with the script we got and there are some changes IMO that would of helped though top of the list is WB having to remove their idiotic time limit that did more damage than good...
* Open the movie with the flashback to the Armies of Earth v the forces of Steppenwolf and then go into the music lead montage that we got.
* Change the Batman opening to having him investigating multiple disappearances and reports of strange creatures. Initial kidnappings in Gotham and that leads him to Metropolis, where we first meet him in this movie. I would set up the scene by showing a Star Labs employee at a facility they have at the crashed ship from MoS/BvS and they are experimenting on a Mother Box. The employee coming off his shift and on his way home is chased by an a Parademon through some back streets who can sense he has been near a Mother Box and then cue Batman. This would still lead to Batman knowing his fears of an invasion is coming to pass and would seek Diana who agrees to try and find Cyborg while Bruce locates Aquaman & Barry Allen.
* The Batman/Aquaman scene can go the same way though I would change the Cyborg one just a little with Diana. I would want Cyborg to reference that he was killed when the Mother Box was used in an experiment in Central City called the Particle Accelerator and I would want to see a flashback of this. We already know thanks to BvS that his father secretly used the Mother Box to bring him back after though the box was transferred to the Kryptonian ship site after to see if they could interface the two technologies so that's why Cyborg and his dad are now in Metropolis.
* I'd like to see a flashback scene showing Barry get hit by the lighting as well expanding upon what we saw from Cyborg earlier but keep the rest of the scene as it was. The Brunch thing was a little odd I felt but the joke later with Superman saves it, so leave it in.
* This is where I would expand upon Steppenwolfe and the Mother Boxes showing exactly why he has chosen to return at this point. The Mother Box being used in the particle accelerator incident and then later to save Ray Fisher activated them and were like a homing beacon to Apokolips. Parademons were dispatched as a scouting party, which lead to the events of Steppenwolf using Lex to try and kill Superman and lure out any other heroes in the process. With Superman dead, No Lanterns coming to the aid of Earth and the Amazons/Atlanteans also out of sight, Darkseid chose to send Steppenwolf to retrieve the Mother Boxes and as his reward he would be granted dominion over Earth and his banishment from Apokolips for his previous failure would also be lifted. I would have Darkseid speak to Steppenwolf in the movie but not seen.
* Steppenwolf takes the two boxes as we saw and then is searching for the 3rd one as I would show Cyborg breaking into the Star Labs facility to take possession of the 3rd Mother Box after his father is kidnapped. Cyborg links up with the team as we saw and the battle in Gotham proceeds as we saw.
* Darkseid & Steppenwolf become aware that the League attempt to bring back Superman and Steppenwolf is ordered to take back the 3rd box and bring Superman into his army. As the team attempt to bring back Superman I would have Steppenwolf attack them and channel his own powers and by extension Darkseid's through the Mother Box and Superman awakens with the black suit and a beard
* The traumatic events of his death playing through his head along with his encounter with Bruce in BvS, the fight with Zod, every dark thing he has seen or experienced as Darkseid own influence flows through his body along with the fact his own memories are a jumble mess leads to a out of control Superman battling the League just like we saw but it should be longer IMO. Each member of the JL laid flat out by Superman and Clark asking Batman does he bleed (I loved that line) before Lois enters the stage resting Clark free of Darkseid influence but he would still be confused and fly away on his own to the farm.
* The team recover and their bits would largely play out as we saw with Bruce trying to urge Diana to lead the team and his confession to Alfred that Superman was always more human than him and he believes Superman will come back (hinting at the line from the trailer when Alfred tells someone off-screen "he said you would come").
* Clark back at the farm walking around the lands and the house, his memories trying to piece together. Clark looking at his reflection and saying this isn't my face. Lois arrives later to see a clean shaven
* The team attacks Steppenwolf in Russia and that would go the same though I would show Clark arriving at the Bat-Cave where Alfred gives him his Superman costume that Bruce had in storage and tells Clark, where the team have gone.
The rest of the film would play out as we saw.
So they were my changes
My suggestion would be with the Clark scene around the farm, assuming he's in a shirt as in the theatrical cut, should end with a shirt-rip to the strains of John Williams' 'Superman' theme and we see him fly off in the costume. I'm thinking something like the scene in Superman III following the junkyard fight.
Yeah, it's hard to hear that name and not think of rock bands.
I'm a little baffled they chose Steppenwolf on his own for this. If the bad guy was going to be anyone from the New Gods, someone desperate to gain/regain favor with Darkseid...they should've used Kalibak instead.
Frankly, I think if they wanted to do something unexpected they could've used Mr Mxyzsptlk as the "villain" and gone for something unconventional.
Frankly, I think if they wanted to do something unexpected they could've used Mr Mxyzsptlk as the "villain" and gone for something unconventional.
Not buying it.
Unsubstantiated BS. This is your last chance, junior--prove that was the case, otherwise its more of you resenting the fact that the Dark Knight series was celebrated for a reason, unlike the cartoony MCU.
Leave it the Russos in having no aliens or magic in the far and away greatest MCU film, Captain America: The Winter Soldier. Even one of your own Temple of MCU shatters your argument. Not too smooth, kiddo.
More lies. Four of the non-alien, non-magic films mentioned--Sam Raimi's Spider-Man 2 and Nolan's Dark Knight trilogy--were all produced in the era of other comic book and general fantasy movies produced by the truckload. Painful as it must be for you, there is a class distinction in the history of superhero movies, Superman the Movie, Sam Raimi's Spider-Man 2 and Nolan's Dark Knight trilogy are at the top of the list, with the only MCU films (2 1/2 of Cap films) coming in a slightly distant second. There's a reason. Adapted superheroes work best when truly grounded by plot, and/or the characters remain human in the face of the fantasy, not being smacked around like lifeless 80s cartoon characters, which happen to be a serious problem in most of the MCU.
All that's missing from most of the MCU is someone yelling, "Yo Joe!," "Spider-Friends--Go For it!!" or “ITS MORPHIN TIME!!”
Predictable, as I knew you would do anything to downgrade the greatest of all Spider-Man stories, and conveniently say nothing about the all-alien Secret Wars/Venom storylines it was compared to. You are making this too easy.
...and yet you cannot specifically identify anything in the films. Translated, all you're doing is whining that TDK films are celebrated, while most of the MCU are largely seen as cartoonish dreck.
What do most of the MCU films stand for, other than getting to the next Boss & Easter Eggs like the video games and cheap cartoons they so obviously take most of their inspiration from?
Tough Noogies. They MCU gets the stink eye with every movie they make, even to this day when they're a proven success each film has a negative buzz attached. People who hate non-grounded CBMs are still around, in no small number.
Don't need to, people like you are just too unwilling to accept that Ledger dying artificially boosted the movie. Dark Knight gets praise mainly for that. And it had no competition from CBMs that weren't ashamed of themselves until later. People just didn't know any better. Now they do.
It's not the greatest, and it has ancient Nazi Cultists planning on using flying aircraft carriers to kill people based on a program created by the mind of a Swiss Scientist store on old 1970s Computers mainframes. That ain't grounded.
Hell, you want to use scores than films like Ragnarok and Dr Strange rival it. And those films eagerly embrace the wondrous.
No, truth. Those films wouldn't do as well in today's environment now that people are more accepting of CBMs that aren't ashamed of their origins.
The Nostalgia List, nothing more. None of them would do as well today.
It wasn't that great, it's remembered mainly for killing two people readers thought were unkillable. Venom's story has never been that good, though. The whole character is nonsensical. Of course, the Goblin was pretty nonsensical for a long time too.
Two Face being wasted, the 3rd Act a mess and Joker being lazily omnipotent, off the top of my head. Ledger dying means people weren't willing to bring any of that up.
Showing people there's no shame in enjoying comic books and the variety. Whereas DC still hasn't gotten the message.
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Just got back from seeing it.
No critics conspiracy -- just a bad movie. Ugh, so much potential wasted.
Agreed.
This sums it up pretty well for me.
What's the box office like in Themyscira?
I imagine the Atlantian take won't be recorded for awhile either.Doesn't really matter, because Steppenwolf stole the box there anyway.
Under the sea!
No critics conspiracy -- just a bad movie. Ugh, so much potential wasted.
Yep, thats exactly how I feel.
I got music on the brain fro some reason... But what if Diana was a country and western star now, after spending years "out" in man's world impressing people with her lasso tricks?
Although if she's being awesome doing stadium tours... Then Aflec's line about Wonder Woman being uninspirational wouldn't work any more.
Sorry
Never mind.
Although if she's being awesome doing stadium tours... Then Aflec's line about Wonder Woman being uninspirational wouldn't work any more.
Sorry
Never mind.
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Michael J Pollard is still alive, but Dudley Moore is not.
Hmmm?
Had fate not stepped in his way, Duddles would have played Mr Mxyzptlk as a limey!
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