News Harberts: Reconciling Discovery With The Original Series

[Ar-Pharazon]

As for the mycelial network, it could be damaged (ala TNG:Force Of Nature). Or, they could end up completely destroying all or parts of it, making it unusable.

If the Klingons get hold of the technology, Starfleet could be forced to destroy it intentionally.

 

[zar]

...or that they even have a plan to resolve it, at this point.

No, they quite specifically said they do have a plan regarding Burnham/Sarek, and strongly implied the same for other supposed violations. What they did not say was that all of this was tied up with a bow for season 1.

 

[starsuperion]

Maybe we'll get lucky and Burnham dies a horrible death, and Sarek, Spock, and Cybock can't bring themselves to mention her over their grief, or they excommunicate her because she's such an awful person. A mutineer, would be a huge disappointment and embarassment to the high minded Vulcans.

 

[GravityWell]

This season is and has always been a self contained story. "Today's news" isn't changing anything. This is what was said by the EP over a month before your earlier post:

[The first season] wraps up and it creates new situations. There is a certain point when you are working through the story arc of a season that you start to have ideas you fall in love with that you realize cannot go into that season. So, you start putting them on index cards and thumbtacking them to the board and then suddenly that becomes the next season.

We are about to start shooting the final episode, so late in the season a really strong emotional idea became clear to all of us and we decided that is what season two is going to be all about. If we get a season two, the seeds are going to be planted at the end of season one.

I think the audience has to have a satisfying experience of the season. They have to feel it has come full circle and they have had an arc. So, I think we can have an arc and we can also set up where we want to go next season. So, those things aren’t necessarily mutually exclusive.

The problem is you're conflating the statements that apparent canon violations are deliberate and will be resolved, and that season 1's arc will be resolved in season 1, with "we promise to address all complaints and finish every arc by the end of season 1", which was never remotely suggested. For one, things like the Klingon makeup (which you ramble about for a good half of your post), holograms, etc. are silly complaints that they have no obligation to pander to, and not what they were referring to.

The Klingon war is the story arc of season 1. It will be resolved by episode 15. Other major elements like Burnham, the spore drive and the cloaking device will very likely remain, and must eventually resolve; however no one has--or likely will--promise that it will happen in any particular season, nor should they until said season is actually in development.

I rambled for half a post Not sure what I did to merit that.

I think you’re confusing me with someone else. I never spent half a post taking about Klingon makeup unless you mean mentioning the makeup guys kept saying it was Fuller’s idea?

I don’t think I’ve ever talked about holograms in any depth either which you referenced so that threw me.

 

[zar]

@GravityWell It was in your original post from the other thread that you cross-posted here. And yes, at least half was about the Klingons:

I don't think anyone will like this post, and I hope I'm wrong about my conclusions.

I expect no resolution of how the Klingons look, the change of ships, why the Spore Drive isn't in use, why Spock never mentions Burnham.

Producers, show writers and showrunners telling us that everything will make sense and to just hold in has been a trope of TV production from the X-Files, modern BattleStar Galactica, Lost, FlashForward and many more.

In other words, none of what has been suggested will be resolved, will likely be resolved. No answers will be given this season. In reality, I suspect that whilst their knowledge of the franchise is far better than anyone gives them credit for, I think they have made this up as they go along with no end in sight.

One very clear indication of this is how the incredibly talented makeup, prosthetic guys repeatedly insist on throwing Fuller under a bus each time the Klingons are brought up. I think the two guys featured on After Trek are incredibly talented, but in almost every interview, the Klingon design gets laid at Fuller's door,

Fuller has become the fall guy for the Klingon design, and the only reason I can see you would do that is that you've been told to say that. Otherwise, it's incredibly bad form for what are very nice designs, if a little hard to get used to initially.

I suspect the Klingon issue is like the TOS aesthetic issue. It could all be resolved by calling this a reboot. They chose not to do this, but I don't think they've planned this out either. I'd be happier just saying that they revisualised things but now that overarching story points such as cloaking are not fitting, I'm no longer sure.

Mark my words - they will tell you that everything will be revealed and resolved next season.

 

[GravityWell]

@GravityWell It was in your original post from the other thread that you cross-posted here. And yes, at least half was about the Klingons:

Ah right, I see what your saying.

95% Fullers design involvement really though. It wasn’t about the Klingon makeup though in a value statement sense - which you see people talk about.

More that it seems like bad form to keep mentioning Fuller when they talk about designs. Seems unprofessional to me.

But I get what you mean, you took it a different way and the rambling aspect, your spot on!

 

[GravityWell]

In this case, I'm not so sure that what you are concerned about is due to "no forward planning." More likely you have some unavoidable chaos as a result of this originally being Fuller's story, but then him backing out.

My guess is that everything will be fine, and these are all just details that don't really matter.

You know, I think you’ve hit the nail on the head there. I’d not considered that.

Regardless I’m loving the series whatever way it goes!

 

[zar]

Ah right, I see what your saying.

95% Fullers design involvement really though. It wasn’t about the Klingon makeup though in a value statement sense - which you see people talk about. More that it seems like bad form to keep mentioning Fuller when they talk about designs.

But I get what you mean, you took it a different way and the rambling aspect, your spot on!

I don't know what you're getting at there, either. There's no fall guy. It's obvious they're proud of their work. When people ask why the Klingons are bald, they say it was Bryan Fuller's idea, because, well, it was. That's not throwing him under the bus.

 

[GravityWell]

I don't know what you're getting at there, either. There's no fall guy. It's obvious they're proud of their work. When people ask why the Klingons are bald, they say it was Bryan Fuller's idea, because, well, it was. That's not throwing him under the bus.

I hope you’re right, they are excellent designs. Artists don’t usually namecheck like that in show business. They are giving credit where credit is due your saying. Quite possible. Perhaps I’m misreading things.

 

[Mudd]

No, they quite specifically said they do have a plan regarding Burnham/Sarek, and strongly implied the same for other supposed violations.

 

[Refuge]

They've been saying a lot of things. You can sum it up as... be patient we're going to juggle a few things and where the balls land? Hey, we don't even know yet!

- Harberts ... So the episodes that we have coming in the back half of the season are really all leading us to this convergence of storylines ...

- For those curious about what will come for the rest of the season, Berg revealed that “the war will continue in Chapter 2. It’ll be in there for sure.

- Season Two will begin a new “novel".

- Ted Sullivan (writer) I think people will start to see more and more glimpses of the Starfleet they know the deeper into the series we get.

- Why Discovery might seem like its violating canon?

Harbets: 'The thing for the audience to keep in mind as they digest the show is that there may be an episode or a moment where it seems like were are violating canon. They need patience, because what we'll end up doing in another episode is showing them how we're getting around it.

Kurtzman: Without spoiling anything we are adhering to a timeline and sticking to the rules, but also I think finding some new areas and avenues.. You have to respect canon as it's being written... You have to understand the timelines and what the different timelines were and what the different universe were and how they all worked together.

 

[zar]

@Serveaux Sorry, but this is pretty unambiguous: "One of those areas of canon includes Spock and his parents. Michael Burnham will appear as a ward of Sarek’s and her presence and how it all works will be explained ... We have a plan." I don't know why you're bothering to deny this.

 

[Borgminister]

@Serveaux Sorry, but this is pretty unambiguous: "One of those areas of canon includes Spock and his parents. Michael Burnham will appear as a ward of Sarek’s and her presence and how it all works will be explained ... We have a plan." I don't know why you're bothering to deny this.

Oh he's Ebeneezer Scrooge'd Trek in general, so...

 

[indranee]

Kurtzman: Without spoiling anything we are adhering to a timeline and sticking to the rules, but also I think finding some new areas and avenues.. You have to respect canon as it's being written... You have to understand the timelines and what the different timelines were and what the different universe were and how they all worked together.

A timeline?!

"A" timeline. I wonder what that means. Which one?

 

[Tim Thomason]

Spock never mentioned Burnham, because Spock never mentioned anything.

"Oh, by the way Captain, the Vulcan ambassador to the Federation, standing right here, is my father."

----

"Oh, did I not mention that Vulcans males undergo an unquenchable blood-lust every seven years when away from their home planet? Well they do, and mine's starting right about now. Better disobey orders and get me home ASAP."

----

"Hey, we've known each other for twenty-three years and you've literally brought me back from the dead and all that, but I hesitate to mention that the psychotic Vulcan who I've just handed control of the ship to is my brother."
"You said you had no brothers!"
"Half-brother. See, it's technically not a lie."

 

[Tuskin38]

I love the show, but he just pretty much stated that there was no planning for how to resolve things like the spore drive.

Or he just doesn't want to give it away.

Maybe we'll get lucky and Burnham dies a horrible death, and Sarek, Spock, and Cybock can't bring themselves to mention her over their grief, or they excommunicate her because she's such an awful person. A mutineer, would be a huge disappointment and embarassment to the high minded Vulcans.

Your posts are always a delight to read.

A timeline?!

"A" timeline. I wonder what that means. Which one?

Prime.

 

[Nerys Myk]

The Primeline ™ ® ©

 

[Ensign_Rowan_McGrath]

At least Star Trek: Discovery has a plan.

Battlestar Galactica (TRS) only had a plan to Season 2 and then made it up as they went along, giving us the stupidest ending in the history of television in my opinion (I can't watch past Season 4 Episode 1 [the first ten minutes] anymore).

 

[Mudd]

At least Star Trek: Discovery has a plan.

There's no evidence of that.

In the long run, they'll address continuity issues with a hand-wave here and an expository lump there that will provide vindication to the faithful and a good laugh to the skeptical...and the arguments will never be resolved. Star Trek!

 

[Tuskin38]

There's no evidence of that.

In the long run, they'll address continuity issues with a hand-wave here and an expository lump there that will provide vindication to the faithful and a good laugh to the skeptical...and the arguments will never be resolved. Star Trek!

You don’t know that