Remember, Spock had his skull noodles brain-jacked and then dropped back in, so maybe that explains some of his 3rd season lapses, or maybe it was just Fred Freiberger screwing things up again.
I'll Admit I Never Understood "The Mark of Gideon"
- Thread starter Samuel
- Start date
Remember, Spock had his skull noodles brain-jacked and then dropped back in, so maybe that explains some of his 3rd season lapses, or maybe it was just Fred Freiberger screwing things up again.
That theory only works if you watch Spock's Brain before Mark of Gideon my Lord Beard! 
JB
JB
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Spock's superiors being so unhelpful would indeed mesh nicely with the UFP and Gideon doing this together - somehow the Gideonites did get the necessary personnel records. But why do it this way when they could simply order Kirk to beam down and cough at a vial? Or climb into a water reservoir and split open his wrists if it came to that?
If OTOH it's a conspiracy at a lower level, how low can one go? Why would somebody below Kirk in the hierarchy be doing this?
As for replicating the starship, in the nineteen-sixties this might have called for stealing the blueprints or getting them from a UFP agent in a brown suitcase or something. Today, it would be incredible to think of a future party not being able to record the ship in perfect detail, when we can do quite comparable stuff with our drones, cameras, lidars and computers already. And when one adds Trek and replicators (which may well be feeding Gideon, and also the greed of the UFP bigwigs), it would be grossly inconsistent if the Gideonites could not build replicas of the ship at will.
Timo Saloniemi
If OTOH it's a conspiracy at a lower level, how low can one go? Why would somebody below Kirk in the hierarchy be doing this?
As for replicating the starship, in the nineteen-sixties this might have called for stealing the blueprints or getting them from a UFP agent in a brown suitcase or something. Today, it would be incredible to think of a future party not being able to record the ship in perfect detail, when we can do quite comparable stuff with our drones, cameras, lidars and computers already. And when one adds Trek and replicators (which may well be feeding Gideon, and also the greed of the UFP bigwigs), it would be grossly inconsistent if the Gideonites could not build replicas of the ship at will.
Timo Saloniemi
That theory only works if you watch Spock's brain before Mark of Gideon my Lord Beard!
JB
Spock's Brain did air first. It was the third season premier.
The Gideonites did have bodies that can regenerate and (presumably) heal wounds. So maybe they don't need to eat much.
I guess technically the assumption that the Gideonites duplicated the enter Enterprise is probably false. All we saw during the episode was the bridge, a few corridors, Captains quarters and a couple of other areas. They probably could've duplicated less than 10% of the ship to get that effect,
Spock's Brain was also produced 11 episodes earlier than Mark Of Gideon.
Interestingly though, Mark Of Gideon has an earlier stardate...
That's been my interpretation for a while. Kirk claims to have searched the entire ship, yet he's only been on the replica for "minutes" (according to both Spock and Hodin) by that point. There's no way he could have done that in person; clearly he relied on internal sensors form the Bridge replica (and was lied to by them)
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Yes I know that, Sam, but some channels might have shown it out of order like many TV stations did probably over the years and Gideon has an earlier star date than Brain like Mytran stated above!
JB
And what did they do with 497 billion corpses?
The real question is did they like their Soylent Green buttered?
But they had to anticipate where Kirk would go in exploring the replica. On a ship that size, that is a lot of possibilities. On multiple decks.
Not to mention the items not on any plans. There are always minor differences between plans and reality. Plus the personal affects, unique decor, wear and damage marks, etc...
If we assume Kirk indeed only went to the "public" parts of his ship, as shown, detailed recordings of those locations might well exist. All it takes is an agent with a doodad in his pocket walking through the areas - every single scratch, scent and noise should be his to play with after this.
But since Gideon supposedly didn't encourage tourism or send envoys, they'd have to pay a third party to do the spying for them. Which again makes one wonder why they didn't pay said party to deliver the disease to them in a vial.
Timo Saloniemi
But since Gideon supposedly didn't encourage tourism or send envoys, they'd have to pay a third party to do the spying for them. Which again makes one wonder why they didn't pay said party to deliver the disease to them in a vial.
Timo Saloniemi
On the other hand in the TNG episode regarding Picards "son" we know that apparently there is a publicly available directory of Starfleet personnel and whom they had affairs with and when.
Just like in Nemesis it is apparently well known (at least to the Romulans) whom among Starfleet will be the top officers in a couple of decades so they can know whom to clone.
Some of these convenient happenstances are more forgivable than others. In the case if Picard's "son" Bok was on the lookout for something to use for revenge. If circumstances hadn't allowed for the fake son plot the episode would have been about something else.
Likewise, the Gideonites could have tried something else. But open UFP records are a thing in Trek, and any two-bit terrorist can get the schematics of the Flagship. It's just the stratches and spilled ngaan-flavored milkshake stains that require the spying explanation.
That's just observer bias: create six thousand clones, and there will be some hits and many misses. But out of both sorts, only a few will become personal pets for prison bosses and live to ripe old age; beyond that, only rules of drama decide that the clone that survives is that of Picard rather than of Keogh or Nowan.
I mean, we still don't know if Picard is that special. Yes, he's the one and only Locutus, but that didn't bring him wealth and influence. As far as starship skippers go, he's possibly a has-been, having lost the Flagship and all; as far as Starfleet officers in general go, he is definitely slacking, not having made flag rank yet.
Timo Saloniemi
That's just observer bias: create six thousand clones, and there will be some hits and many misses. But out of both sorts, only a few will become personal pets for prison bosses and live to ripe old age; beyond that, only rules of drama decide that the clone that survives is that of Picard rather than of Keogh or Nowan.
I mean, we still don't know if Picard is that special. Yes, he's the one and only Locutus, but that didn't bring him wealth and influence. As far as starship skippers go, he's possibly a has-been, having lost the Flagship and all; as far as Starfleet officers in general go, he is definitely slacking, not having made flag rank yet.
Timo Saloniemi
Yeah, those were some EXTREMELY specific circumstances that Bok needed in order to carry out his convoluted plan.
Thank goodness for those Starfleet public records!
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