George Takei accused of sexual assault.

[ZapBrannigan]

People need to start LISTENING to the VICTIMS.

Yes, but if the pendulum swings too far, you get the Salem witch trials. Accusations spiral out of control, and every accusation is tantamount to a guilty verdict.

Also, what was the original issue again? No one despises George Takei more than I do, I'm a Shatner man myself, but come on. As far as I know, Takei is accused of going to a gay bar, having drinks with a guy, and inviting him home. Once there, he tried to initate a sexual encounter. When met with resistance, Takei stopped and let the guy leave.

A) If that's a crime, we don't have nearly enough prisons built.

and

B) What was the accuser expecting to happen when he went to a gay bar and then went home with a man he met there? If you don't want sexual contact, and you're going to cry foul if touched "down there", then what the hell are you doing getting picked up at a gay bar? You're leading someone on? For what?

EDIT: My description of events in this post has proved to be inconsistent with published reports.

 

[RobertCardassian]

Ummm, he did not "try to initiate an encounter." The article says the victim feels as though he was drugged after Takei invited him over as a friend listening to his breakup story. And then when he was passed out, Takei undid his pants and proceeded to fellate/handjob him. Did you even READ the account?

Sickness

 

[RobertCardassian]

The two men went back to the actor's condo for a drink the same night. "We have the drink and he asks if I would like another," Brunton recalls. "And I said sure. So, I have the second one, and then all of a sudden, I begin feeling very disoriented and dizzy, and I thought I was going to pass out. I said I need to sit down and he said sit over here and he had the giant yellow beanbag chair. So I sat down in that and leaned my head back and I must have passed out."

"The next thing I remember I was coming to and he had my pants down around my ankles and he was groping my crotch and trying to get my underwear off and feeling me up at the same time, trying to get his hands down my underwear," Brunton says. "I came to and said, 'What are you doing?!' I said, 'I don't want to do this.' He goes, 'You need to relax. I am just trying to make you comfortable. Get comfortable.' And I said, 'No. I don't want to do this.' And I pushed him off and he said, 'OK, fine.' And I said I am going to go and he said, 'If you feel you must. You're in no condition to drive.' I said, 'I don't care I want to go.' So I managed to get my pants up and compose myself and I was just shocked. I walked out and went to my car until I felt well enough to drive home, and that was that."

http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/news/george-takei-accused-sexually-assaulting-model-1981-1056698

 

[JackSparrowJive]

. When met with resistance, Takei stopped and let the guy leave.

Nope. He admitted to NON consensual groping. Touching people who were "skittish" or "AFRAID" to try to "persuade" them. His own words, here:

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[RobertCardassian]

^ Lines up with the accusations too

 

[Jayson1]

Ummm, he did not "try to initiate an encounter." The article says the victim feels as though he was drugged after Takei invited him over as a friend listening to his breakup story. And then when he was passed out, Takei undid his pants and proceeded to fellate/handjob him. Did you even READ the account?

Sickness

This sounds like something that will be next to impossible to prove. How does one tell the difference between being drugged instead of just being drunk and passing out? I've never been drunk myself since I don't drink alcohol but my brother-law does to a point where he is a alcoholic and has even had to go to ER several times because of it and I have seen him while drunk and how he can recall anything is a mystery to me. He stumbles around alot, and trips over things and bumps into walls. What is the stance if both people are drunk during a sexual encounter?

Jason

 

[RobertCardassian]

^ The level of victim blaming is astonishing.

 

[RobertCardassian]

This gives me no pleasure. Sulu was one of my favorite Trek characters

He is a sick individual and needs to be punished before the court of public opinion

 

[JackSparrowJive]

This sounds like something that will be next to impossible to prove. How does one tell the difference between being drugged instead of just being drunk and passing out? I've never been drunk myself since I don't drink alcohol but my brother-law does to a point where he is a alcoholic and has even had to go to ER several times because of it and I have seen him while drunk and how he can recall anything is a mystery to me. He stumbles around alot, and trips over things and bumps into walls. What is the stance if both people are drunk during a sexual encounter?

Jason

When someone ADMITS to NON consensual groping, which is sexual assault, they no longer get a presumption of innocence.

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[Timewalker]

Because the VICTIM felt ASHAMED. Have you ever been assaulted? I have and it feels awful

The level of protection that is surrounding Takei from his fans is astounding. We get it, you like his artistic work, but he's also a SICKO

I'm not saying it doesn't. I've been in situations where things could have gone that far, as recently as July of this year; a tenant in my building tried to force his way in here after midnight; he took a casual conversation that in no way implied that I had any interest in him as an invitation to push his way in here 12 hours later for "massages." Because there aren't any security cameras in the hallways here, the cops said "there's no proof, so we can't do anything." In the meantime he's still living here, I can't afford to move (and why the hell should I when I'm not the one who committed a crime?), and I keep hoping he's going to screw up and give the manager the excuse she needs to evict him. In my situation, this guy HAS done this before - getting farther with another woman than he got with me, and he HAS been in court due to his actions. I'm just the latest one he decided to do this to, and I'm sitting here in my apartment, cautious as hell about what time I leave it and where I go.

So my situation has more credibility than the one with Takei who, to the best of my knowledge, hasn't ever been accused of this before by anyone, and the younger guy needs to come up with more convincing proof than "I told a few friends".

If more people come forward, that would change things, but you don't have the authority to pronounce him guilty and a "sicko" since you're not a judge who has just tried him and found him guilty.

A few posts up is a link to an interview where george admits to non consensual groping, which is sexual assualt. Once a person admits to that, they dont get a presumption on innocense.

He did not admit to it being non-consensual. Stern is very good at twisting people's words to make it seem that they said something they really didn't.

I hope you're as vociferously against Trump as you are against Takei.

 

[Jayson1]

^ The level of victim blaming is astonishing.

Nobody is blaming anyone. We are making guesses as to what might have happened I say guesses because we weren't there. We have no evidence and nothing has been proven. What else can someone do if they want to try and be impartial?

Jason

 

[O_Kav]

Yes, but if the pendulum swings too far, you get the Salem witch trials. Accusations spiral out of control, and every accusation is tantamount to a guilty verdict.

That's a slippery slope fallacy. Like @jespah wisely mentioned, we hardly have an epidemics of false accusations right now. Those who falsely accuse others get punished and they are not as many as the people who commit sexual assaults.

It's the other way around, actually. Assaulters are the ones who get mostly away with their crimes due to the fact that misogyny and toxic masculinity are still common things among people.

And let me say I don't agree with @RobertCardassian. He's already jumping to the conclusion that Takei is gulity and he's also misusing the concept of "victim blaming" IMO. That's not how you should approach a case like this. You should give priority to the accusers and not the accused, I agree. You can't assume that the accusers are victims right away, though. You have to let the Justice System decide that first.

 

[ZapBrannigan]

Did you even READ the account?

No, I did not. But having now read your link, the only part that would seriously concern me is the possibility that a drink was drugged, Bill Cosby style. That isn't right. Of course, 50 women have come forward to accuse Bill Cosby.

In part, what I'm struggling with is a clash of liberal pieties. On the one hand, it's wrong to criticize gay men for wanting to initiate encounters, but on the other hand it's wrong to question any accusation of sexual misconduct. I'm clearly out of my depth here.

 

[JackSparrowJive]

He did not admit to it being non-consensual. Stern is very good at twisting people's words to make it seem that they said something they really didn't. I hope you're as vociferously against Trump as you are against Takei.

No one twisted anything in that interview. Howard asked george if he ever sexually harrassed or assualted anyone, and INSTEAD of saying NO he said sometimes when people were skittish or AFRAID he would grope them to try to "persuade" them. When someone is AFRAID or even skittish, it is NOT consensual. And any NON consensual sexual contact is SEXUAL ASSAULT. For the record I am agaisnt anyone who does it, but THIS thread is about Takei, and bringing up others wont make him any less guilty of what he ADMITTED doing.

 

[RobertCardassian]

Mods can we get a cleanup in here? A lot of the molestation enablers in here need to get timed out.

TrekBBS needs to be a safe space and if we can't even get on the same page on Takei that bodes poorly.

 

[RobertCardassian]

GET IT THROUGH YOUR HEADS, PEOPLE: never blame a victim and learn to listen to their stories. If you do otherwise, YOU ARE PART OF THE PROBLEM

 

[donners22]

Assaulters are the ones who get mostly away with their crimes due to the fact that misogyny and toxic masculinity are still common things among people.

Not to mention the prevalence of myths and misconceptions about sexual offending. They are prevalent among both genders.

 

[RobertCardassian]

Reported 3 members in here.

 

[sttngfan1701d]

It honestly sounds to me like a planned sexual encounter that went awry. All we have is this guy's recollection from decades ago that he went home with Takei from a gay bar, had a few drinks, passed out, and came to with Takei allegedly giving him him a handjob, after which Takei stopped, tried to convince the guy to stay, and then let him go. Allegedly.

If true it would constitute sexual assault. But it does not make Takei a rapist or a serial predator like Cosby, and one alleged instance should not destroy his entire reputation, just his credibility to take the moral high ground on issues like this when it happens to others. It also should not get him tried and convicted by a mob on the internet. But the internet is going to do what it does.

Personally I will wait until other shoes drop, or more to this certain story comes out, before I use the term rapist or predator. Until then, the mob needs to put down the torches.

 

[RobertCardassian]

^ Reported