Voles got in the wiringWell, the lighting on the station was noticeably dimmer than say, the Enterprise-D.
Let's talk about the elephant in the room, this series violates Roddenberry's vision big time
- Thread starter Sci-fi fan
- Start date
I confess: I found that scene really disturbing when I first watched it as a kid back in the day.
It's perhaps worth remembering that TOS was following in the tradition of serious SF shows like THE TWILIGHT ZONE and the original OUTER LIMITS, which often ended on dark and tragic notes. Heck, even Trek's most obvious inspiration, FORBIDDEN PLANET, is ultimately about Doctor Morbius being destroyed by the primal darkness lurking in his own unconscious mind . . .
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As awful as that episode is that scene is still very sad to watch and the kids did pretty commendable acting jobs conveying their grief.
RE the money debate. In what I believe was "The Apple." Spock gets injured by pointy flower spikes of doom and when it's revealed Spock is okay, Kirk says something like.
"Do you know how much money Starfleet has put into you.?"
Spock was starting to tell him and Kirk said nevermind. So money was used in TOS.
"Do you know how much money Starfleet has put into you.?"
Spock was starting to tell him and Kirk said nevermind. So money was used in TOS.
Besides, how did Starfleet officers pay for drinks at bars like the one seen in TSFS? Replicators didn't exist at that point and since the facility wasn't aboard a Starfleet vessel they'd be subject to local civilian owners who could charge for their food and beverages if they so chose.
I know it hasn't aged well, but I'd be lying if I didn't admit that that episode seriously creeped me out way back when. And, yeah, it's basically a horror story at its core, right down to an evil spirit corrupting a bunch of innocent children, so that they don't even notice or care that their parents have died . ... .
And it is better than "Catspaw" or "Spock's Brain." 
That's not saying a whole lot, but at least a memorable chant came out of the episode along with some very creepy visuals.
That's not saying a whole lot, but at least a memorable chant came out of the episode along with some very creepy visuals.
You forgot a big one - "Arena" - an entire Federation Colony (with women and children as stated by the one survivor who ultimately died in Sickbay) wiped out by the Gorn AND the 1701 lured there by fake messages for a test of combat abilities. Yep light and family friendly material here.Yeah, but I don't think that was intended to be the takeaway there.
"Good news, Spock! You'll get more screen time later. Shame about Mitchell and Dehner, though . . . "
And, seriously, let's look at season one of TOS. Just off the top of my head: "Mantrap" is about McCoy discovering that his former sweetheart has been killed and replaced by a Salt Vampire--and ends with Kirk lamenting that they had to kill the last of its species. "Charlie X" ends in with poor, tragic Charlie doomed to live apart from other human beings for the rest of his life. "Balance of Terror" ends with Lt. Martine weeping over the death of her fiancee on their wedding day. "Conscience of the King" ends with poor, crazy Lenore being shipped off to a mental hospital after she accidentally kills her own father, the guilt-ridden war criminal. And need I mention Edith Keeler?
But STAR TREK didn't get "dark" until DS9?
(And none of those episodes were about life in a "post-scarcity" economy.)
I used to think the Federation had no money, based on things from TNG/VOY, but I guess upon examination, although most things are post-scarcity, there seems to be currency used for those few resources that are still scarce. Also given the different attitudes seen in TOS to TNG, it's quite possible that the Federation economy became more post-scarcity after TOS.
This fits well with a progressive democracy, in which more and more things are seen as basic rights.
In some countries today, education up to university level is free, and a basic right, in others it isn't.
If I was to guess, I would say that during TOS the Federation still had more vestiges of the capitalism of eras past than in later eras, but by TNG, the Federation's currency is largely used for luxury goods, with food/accommodation being entirely free, and a basic right.
This fits well with a progressive democracy, in which more and more things are seen as basic rights.
In some countries today, education up to university level is free, and a basic right, in others it isn't.
If I was to guess, I would say that during TOS the Federation still had more vestiges of the capitalism of eras past than in later eras, but by TNG, the Federation's currency is largely used for luxury goods, with food/accommodation being entirely free, and a basic right.
Star Trek is inconsistent with it's facts or contradicts itself? Imagine my shock!
Kirk in Star Trek IV: "They're still using money. We've got to find some."
I will go with the retcon and accept Star Trek's New Testament TNG as authoritative on the money issue.
I like that interpretation very much.
And TVH was pre-TNG, production-wise.
A Trek fan's life blood.
One of his many pranks?
Or at the Enterprise's wig-fitter's shop.
Fifteen years.
Those are all single data points. That detail about money repeats a lot. Uhura buys a Tribble. "Permits many. Money, more." Kirk sells his house in Generations.
Is there a Prime Directive for money? If I'm a Fed citizen and I can replicate whatever I want (so I have unlimited buying power) am I allowed to trade with civilizations that use money? "Impressive. They can buy planets." And if I CAN'T "buy" from a civ that uses money then doesn't that make that civ's goods SCARCE?
Perhaps garnered from other non federation cultures, to be spent with non federation cultures?
As does the detail about no money. Picard unequivocally states that not only money doesn't exist, but that they don't get paid and the pursuit of material wealth is no longer their driving force. Difficult to argue your way round that one. And there doesn't seem to be a dramatic societal shift anywhere between TOS and TNG resulting in the sudden withdrawal from a monetary economy.
In short, wildly inconsistent, irreconcilably so. We just need to accept it. Like the military thing. It's Schrödinger's Canon. The federation simultaneously both uses and does not use money while it's Starfleet is simultaneously a military, and not. Quantum continuity.
Why is that always an answer? "Oh, it's from outside." If you can have anything you want, then how can you go "outside" to get MORE of anything you want? What is it that makes the Disco crew recognize Stella's dad as "rich"? Mudd, Cyrano Jones, and The Outrageous Okana were all shady money grubbing rogues. But only "outside the Federation".
I guess a "post-scarcity" question is, what do I have to do to get a spaceship? And if a spaceship is hard to get, what is the largest "thing" that is now easy to acquire? I'm guessing food is never a problem. Neither is alcohol (although there are apparently people who feel that wine from the Picard's cannot be replicated - so that has value and is by definition scarce). Shelter is not a problem, but how much shelter? I can live in a box like in Blade Runner, sure. Can I have a ranch? Land is the one thing they're not making anymore. And I would guess more people would want to live on Earth than live on the planet from Mudd's Women. So there is demand.
Mudd talked about being able to buy a moon. Can he do that in the Federation? How?
Can someone have enough power, influence, what have you to get a moon in the Federation? "I don't have money, but I have the ear of the Federation council. Give me a planet and I can something something something. But I'm certainly not paying for it because we don't have money."
You've hit on the same problem the writers had. They wanted to portray a post scarcity economy but lacked the language and social experience to do so. The genuine impact of replicators was never really explored, and DS9 was terrible at having technology that could produce anything for free out of thin air right next to a bar selling those same things. It never made any sense at all if you paid too much attention to the economics.
I can imagine a future where Human beings would mostly will be content with their necessities and a fair bit of entertainment. But human nature is what it is, I'd imagine many alien cultures apart of something like a federation would be similar, always someone who wants more. And I'd imagine they would find this with non-federation worlds.
I don't know if it's the answer I'm just saying it's a possibility I can imagine.
