I said I liked the episode. Still doesn't make the actions of the Discovery crew make any kind of sense.
Spoilers Star Trek: Discovery 1x07 - "Magic to Make the Sanest Man Go Mad"
- Thread starter Commander Richard
- Start date
I said I liked the episode. Still doesn't make the actions of the Discovery crew make any kind of sense.
If I understand the nature of this time crystal, it requires premeditative use. You have to be fairly sure that whatever it is you are going to do can be done in 30 minutes or less if you do it all perfectly. Otherwise you will be looping a worthless point in time, or looping an endless failure until you get too worn out that you can't reset anymore, and time doesn't reset. Thus wasting the crystal on something pointless. You can't proactively use it to undo the loss of your ship unless you managed to preplan its use as a sort of temporal waypoint before heading into battle. And for all we know, Starfleet uses that to ensure they don't have as many losses as they could have had. We could have been seen Starfleet using it all the time, yet we only get the final loop each time. We'd never know because the crystal would self-destruct and the user would just look tired. We'd not see any other loop because this was the final one that won the day.
This is the sort of thing you can only use in a pre-planned action and hope things can work out. This could be good for thief, perhaps assassination, and espionage, but this isn't all that good for battle, nor can it save a starship that is jumped by the Klingons.
Lastly...it is rare. Mudd might know were to get them, but they might be off some rare animal, or even off the Bajoran orbs. These are things that Starfleet might not be able to justify gathering up, or the numbers they could get won't be enough to outfit every ship for all time. Their might be only 300 of these things possible within a year's time (or even in a hundred years' time). It take time to gather, and by then, whatever it is you needed doing is over.
This is the sort of thing you can only use in a pre-planned action and hope things can work out. This could be good for thief, perhaps assassination, and espionage, but this isn't all that good for battle, nor can it save a starship that is jumped by the Klingons.
Lastly...it is rare. Mudd might know were to get them, but they might be off some rare animal, or even off the Bajoran orbs. These are things that Starfleet might not be able to justify gathering up, or the numbers they could get won't be enough to outfit every ship for all time. Their might be only 300 of these things possible within a year's time (or even in a hundred years' time). It take time to gather, and by then, whatever it is you needed doing is over.
Can't be that rare if Mudd was able to acquire the things on multiple occasions.
Shruggles. It was set up that they're rare and it didn't seem like he could get more. But, who cares. They were just a plot device to set up the episode.
They're not intended to have further repercussions. Just like the Guardian of Forever only set up that episode and wasn't used again even though it should've been by your logic.
It's good enough for me. YMMV.
A
Amaris
Guest
Mudd's a thief, a swindler, a con artist. He sells people out for short and long term gain, depending upon the situation. He's likely in deep with any number of organizations with deep pockets, and likely just as hunted by others. He's a man without scruple, and with a clear desire to get as much as he can any way he can. People like Mudd manage to wriggle out of responsibility while cashing in at the same time. There are a myriad number of ways he could have obtained these, even as rare as they are.
It was used again, in the TAS episode "Yesteryear".
Rare things can be in groups, yet only on one rock, on one island, on one planet, in a nebula, in Romulan space. Rare is both relative, and amount of difficulty in locating. He found them. We don't know how many he took. He could have a source, a vendor on a weird world, or just happened to find out something and kept it to himself. Or it isn't all that rare, and just it isn't that functionally usable without premeditative planning. It seems like a specific use item.
"I want to relive the next 30 minutes of my life to learn what I can and maybe get out with a victory and end the loop." However, if you don't win within a certain period of time (for you, not everyone else in the loop) you will exhaust yourself and the loop might end on its own without you doing anything that actually matters, since only you know you did it.
"I want to relive the next 30 minutes of my life to learn what I can and maybe get out with a victory and end the loop." However, if you don't win within a certain period of time (for you, not everyone else in the loop) you will exhaust yourself and the loop might end on its own without you doing anything that actually matters, since only you know you did it.
If he could acquire them, then there's no doubt the Federation could figure out a way to acquire them. Especially considering they had him on the hook for treason.
Indeed.
The online behavior you see now is no different than it was when Enterprise first aired or when Star Trek hit the theaters in 2009. It’s the same nit-picking, rationalizing, and need to be heard/respected from the “I don’t like this” camp that drives the continuous (and repetitive) stream of critical commentary.
The problem is that it gets old. You have 75% of a message board talking up a lively discussion about the ins-and-outs of a series that they like (. You have 20% trying to break through and, for some reason, feel they need to be heard over the din of all us “rainbow and pony” people who like the series for what it is…and that comes off as combative and irritating for some)…but that’s the only way their opinions will feel validated and rationalized.
Then you have 5% psychoanalyzing everyone’s behavior.
Huh….never mind…
Hmmmm. Well, we'll see. I'm hoping you're wrong, but I don't know for sure. I'd rather not have the solution depend on the time crystals. Using them for a one-off story that is meant to be mostly fun is fine. Using such powerful plot devices more often and for something of more consequence would be risky.
However, you're right that the writers do have a plan and have thought about things. So, I'm sure it's in good hands.
I guess we'll see!
There’s only one ship with a spore drive. That’s as rare and exorbitant as Mudd’s crystals. Ships can be repaired or replaced but not the thousands of servicemen and women killed. Wasting resources is exactly this: Having learned about a resource like the time crystals and not caring/asking about its potential use.
So which is it? Are the crystals so rare and expensive that only Mudd can find or afford them as claimed by everyone else or not? Because that’s the excuse everyone uses for the last two pages of the thread. Did they get it wrong?
Exactly. By the next episode. This time they forgot about it IN THE SAME EPISODE.
Wow, one more entire time for something so incredibly powerful! Woot! Yeah, that makes sense. Again it was just a plot device that allowed that story.
Some times you (the general you) just have to let go of the nitpickyness and enjoy the story. It's science fiction and not everything is going to work out perfectly. The intent was clear. They wanted to tell a time loop story and the crystals were the means for doing that.
Exactly so! Complaining about it now is kind of funny. And, at least this episode found a way to address that issue. They're exceedingly rare and its gone.
Get in, steal crystal/find crystal, loop, steal crystal again...would work if you have one and find another to make infinite supply.
The orbs in Ds9 are almost completely impossible to control (Trials and Tribbleations being an exception...but...if you consider it a predestination paradox, then the Prophets made it all happen. Sisko doesn’t.)
Time travel is a fiddly bugger, but there are rules in Trek..in some respects, it’s the Nuclear option, and that’s why even the Borg only use it as a last effort, and why everything else but a last resort is Harry Potter Time Turnered...locked up, forgotten or destroyed. (again with the odd exception...Tomorrow is Yesterday.)
Anyway..clearly they chose the wrong music for the party.
They should have joined every other SF franchise ever and used something by The Crystal Method.
The orbs in Ds9 are almost completely impossible to control (Trials and Tribbleations being an exception...but...if you consider it a predestination paradox, then the Prophets made it all happen. Sisko doesn’t.)
Time travel is a fiddly bugger, but there are rules in Trek..in some respects, it’s the Nuclear option, and that’s why even the Borg only use it as a last effort, and why everything else but a last resort is Harry Potter Time Turnered...locked up, forgotten or destroyed. (again with the odd exception...Tomorrow is Yesterday.)
Anyway..clearly they chose the wrong music for the party.
They should have joined every other SF franchise ever and used something by The Crystal Method.
So why get bent out of shape over some silly time crystals that just facilitated a fun story?! Relax and enjoy the ride. I notice you're not nitpicking the shit out of The Orville, which is entirely fine. Yet, these time crystals, holy cow the nerve of those writers!
They told a time loop story. They didn’t tell a story without huge plot and logic holes. Like every other story there are people who liked the story and/or didn’t mind the lack of logic and there are those who didn’t like the story and/or were bothered by the plot holes. I don’t understand why one group or the other should shut up and not voice their opinion.
I actually liked the story, I just thought the end made zero sense. Much like "Cadet-to-Captain" in the Abrams films, or the end of "Pria". One can enjoy something and still admit there are flaws.
True, no argument there by me. But you should probably shut up and like everything apparently. God forbid there’s nitpicking in a sci-fi forum!
You're making an logic error. Just because Mudd had two doesn't mean they're common. I have two exceedingly rare coins. Just because I have two doesn't make them common. There's a reason why I have two.
Maybe he got/stole two from the same place and that's it for the entire galaxy. You just don't know. Although, we do know because these crystals are not a factor in the timeline before or after Discovery, so they must be rare. So, the preponderance of the evidence both within the episode and from the other Trek series suggest that they are extremely rare.