Spoilers Star Trek: Discovery 1x07 - "Magic to Make the Sanest Man Go Mad"

[GilmourD]

So, where did Harry Mudd get a Time Agent's vortex manipulator anyway?

 

[Vger23]

So Cadet Tilly, seemingly socially awkward, turns out to be a party animal! I found that funny, unexpected, refreshing, and it made her somewhat neurotic persona much more bearable, and her character more interestingly filled out. Also, in spite of her "flaws" - and we all have flaws - she has now substantially helped Burnham on multiple occasions in significant ways. We might have thought Burnham had it pretty much together, Vulcan logic and training and all, but Tilly is really helping her to be more complete. Tilly helped Burnham overcome her trepidation about opening the case and viewing the message Captain Georgiou left her, she helped in the shuttle rescuing Sarek, helped Burnham socially integrate and deal with her feelings, and more. Burnham, initially respectfully tolerant of her snoring cabin mate, has really made Tilly her confidant, to great purpose. I was initially somewhat repulsed by her, and I think she was designed to have that effect, though I admit I was highly judgmental. But then as her character developed, I was reminded that everyone can have profound contributions, and life experiences that are important to share by way of empowering others, and I think the writers also intended to impart that lesson. We are also reminded that people of lower rank (though for the time being, Tilly outranks no-rank Burnham) may have wisdom to impart to those of higher rank, so we should always remain receptive to ideas and reflections of others, no matter the source. So I have a new regard and appreciation for Tilly, and feel a little embarrassed by my initial limited judgmental assessment of her. I think she CAN make captain one day, presuming that she avoids some horrific sacrificial fate beforehand, and given her sense of service and dedication, that is not an impossible fate. But I hope she sticks around.

I actually think that this was the plan for almost all the characters to be honest. They grow together and start to bring out the best in each other.

I like watching them change and build the relationships. Very fun

 

[gblews]

It never occurred to me to even question it as I watched—no more than when Mozart or bebop is part of the background. I have hosted house parties, with booze and dancing, where Mozart, Miles Davis, AND Al Green were on the playlist. No one was confused or wanting to leave early.

Need I point out AGAIN, the differences between Mozart and Miles and Al Green with respect to the 23rd century?

 

[Nerys Myk]

Need I point out AGAIN, the differences between Mozart and Miles and Al Green with respect to the 23rd century?

Nothing all. They're just very old composers.

 

[Snick27]

Finally a good episode of Star Trek. This is the direction it needs to keep going.

 

[WisTrekFan]

I finally was able to watch this episode tonight and really enjoyed, in fact the past three episodes have been very good. This week's installment was essentially a remake a "Cause and Effect" from TNG, but they did a nice job with the concept.

 

[Ovation]

Need I point out AGAIN, the differences between Mozart and Miles and Al Green with respect to the 23rd century?

No. They’re irrelevant (the differences, not the composers). It matters not one whit whether any or all of them are heard, let alone remembered, in the “23rd century”. The purpose was to indicate to viewers today that the crew was having a party—not a recital or a concert, but a party. The effect is ruined if the viewers are not made to feel like it’s a party in a manner familiar to them. Filmed media is primarily an emotional, not analytical, experience as far as filmmakers are concerned. It’s supposed to FEEL like a party to present day viewers. It’s not supposed to be some sort of neo-anthropological exploration of “the future”.

PS—the condescending attitude isn’t all that helpful, incidentally.

 

[Ithekro]

Damn it, Clara!

 

[Refuge]

Finally a good episode of Star Trek. This is the direction it needs to keep going.

Where?? What episode do you speak of?

I think it dropped from the previous week.

 

[Refuge]

I can't help but wonder if Mudd was so effortlessly able to use his tech to get the upper hand against an elite starfleet crew on a war footing, killing them all again and again so casually, wouldn't he have been better off using it to kill his debtors?

Would you stop being so practical? () When Mudd couldn't find an elite starfleet crew he ended up embedding himself inside some poor creature and going for a simple, laborious revenge plan on Lorca and the crew of Discovery instead.

 

[Wingsley]

TNG was at least as entertaining with "Cause and Effect". Doctor Who tried the same thing years earlier with "Meglos". Times loops are hardly a good place for this show to go, but when you start making a series on a starship with a pixie dust jump drive that can go anywhere with a snap of the fingers, time travel can't be far behind. Interesting how "the tide has turned" in the war, and Discovery is supposedly doing it, suggesting the good ship is winning the war by itself. How long before the mere mortal Klingons discover that Samantha Stevens is a witch? (Or is that Lois Lane discovers that Clark Kent is Superman?)

I still say that Ripper reminded me of Mr. Snufflelupagus from "Sesame Street". I miss Snuffy. I say bring Snuffy back... Snuffy was definitely a better character than Putinized-Harry Mudd.

But in the 23rd century they're dancing to a remix of "Stayin' Alive"... by the Bee Gees? Or someone from the 1990s sampling the Brothers Gibb? Really?

Maybe that's the point of STD: the 23rd century is a real f-ed up place. No wonder they got into a war with the Go'auld-style Klingons, blamed it all on one woman and then let her off the hook with a demotion.

The bit where Mudd keeps shooting Lorca over and over again... wow... necessary? Like we can't get the message?

 

[Mechanoid1]

.

Finally a good episode of Star Trek. This is the direction it needs to keep going.

Yes more space whales, time crystals and new Disco music.

 

[CorporalClegg]

time crystals arent magic. they are for real science. you can look them up

There may be a thing called "Time Crystals." But do they allow one to repeat a specific period of time in a specific spot in the universe an infinite number of times? Yeah. I didn't think so.

Also, way to miss the point.

 

[Lakenheath 72]

Well, on a frivolous note, I noticed for the first time the most peculliar design choice on the Grimes' ship. It has a figurehead - a statute of something on the bow. When a wealthy person does something this silly, it tells me they are nouveau rich.

One thing which baffles me is that writers and artists for Star Trek can never really get a handle on having a consistent number of decks for their hero ships. It is implied heavily that the shuttlebay is on Deck 6, yet that can't be right as the ship has 15 decks.

Watching the show again, I can see the genesis of the hag Stella we saw in TOS. If crossed or annoyed, her facade of pleasantness disappears and she can get rough quickly. I do not believe what we saw in "I, Mudd" was an accurate representation of the real Stella. More like an exaggerated distortion of her.

 

[Kor]

I generally find repeating time loop stories pretty tedious for at least the first half. But this is just a matter of personal taste for me; I feel like things don't really pick up until near the end.

So naturally, I enjoyed the latter part of this episode much more than the beginning. I liked how they used the whole scenario as a vehicle for character development. And Stella's outfit was pretty cool; very TOS-ish color scheme!

Kor

 

[Lakenheath 72]

For myself, I do not like time travel episodes in Star Trek, for the most part is that they are usually re-set episodes. It is a chance for the writers to go outside their comfort zone and place the characters in unfamiliar situations. There are no real stakes in these episodes. And, honestly, after what it is, seven episodes, I have not developed an affinity for most of these characters.

I remember seeing this cartoon earlier this year about leaving the comfort zone. It's cute.

 

[Tosk]

For myself, I do not like time travel episodes in Star Trek, for the most part is that they are usually re-set episodes. It is a chance for the writers to go outside their comfort zone and place the characters in unfamiliar situations. There are no real stakes in these episodes.

I agree that they are too often that, but we also sometimes get time travel stories that do have stakes...character stakes. Like City on the Edge of Forever, or The Visitor.

 

[Noname Given]

it was beyond stupid that Michael was the only person the gay dude could convince of the loop considering he comes up with the brilliant idea of "tell me something you've never told anyone so next time you'll know what i'm saying is the truth" - that logic wouldn't work on the captain (the very person who decides to beam the whale onto the ship)?

The writing is terrible. If they hadn't forced themselves into the narrative that the black chick is central to everyone else, the story and characters could develop more naturally. That 1 woman who was like "nah, fuck you' towards Burnham got mauled to death minutes later.

Um, IMO - Lorca doesn't listen to anyone, and it would probably take Stamets too much time to convince him alone. Also, Mudd's ship was in the space creature meaning that if the creature didn't get beamed aboard, Mudd could still beam himself aboard while in Transporter range. IE They didn't necessarily need to beam the creature aboard for Mudd to get on the ship. And if Mudd really needed the creature on board he could have the ship's computer beam it on once he took control of the computer.

 

[Lakenheath 72]

"The Visitor" is one of my favorite DS9 episodes.

Yeah, "The City on the Edge of Forever" is a great episode for the characterizations of the key players. However, as an amateur historian, I do not believe the premise that Edith Keeler would keep the US out of the war nor the premise of Germany invading the United States. There were movements which were opposed to the war, which were silenced by the Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor, and the Germans never had the technological ability nor the incentive of invading the US. Their leader was more favorable to the land and sky branches of the Wehrmacht; his antipathy toward the Navy was demonstrated by his proposal in 1943, wherein he called for the demolition of the Navy.

 

[F. King Daniel]

All because of a stardate.

Most fans don't care about stardates, but if it appears that DISCO goofed up on the tiniest detail then that's A MAJOR FUCK UP that we need to call out on the makers.

Goofed up stardate = NOT MY STAR TREK

Reminds me of a story I read in Voyages of Imagination. They had a sign on Roddenberry's door saying Stardates were meaningless B.S. and not to worry about them, but rejected a novel over the stardate because "Chekov wasn't on board yet."

The author changed a single digit and the novel was approved.