Okay, fair. BUT, that was a Screw O'Brien episode, so I'm only going to give half credit, because changing the timeline only reflected something we saw IN the episode, not a series-altering change, and it wasn't the point - screwing O'Brien was. 
Spoilers The Klingon Empire in Star Trek: Discovery
- Thread starter INACTIVEUSS Einstein
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Sisko also was trapped in-between the universes until Jake killed himself to bring him back.
Mind you, the Doc also erased Kes' daughter from existence.
Great job.
Mind you, the Doc also erased Kes' daughter from existence.
Great job.
I heard a Trek fan postulate that Enterprise has to be an in alternate timeline from the rest of the franchise because of the Borg drones found frozen in the Arctic. The numerical sequence transmitted from our part of the galaxy to the Delta Quadrant doesn't jibe with the fact that Q introduces the Borg to the Federation more than two centuries later and thus the Collective can't have detected the message from "Regeneration" during the 24th century and then dispatched cubes to come looking for us.
Never mind the fact that the Borg likely received their drones' message before Q decides to be a complete dick to Picard and the Enterprise-D crew and throws them into the path of a cube. The Collective was already coming for us. Q just sped up the process and made official first contact happen a lot sooner than it otherwise would have.
And that doesn't take into account the Hansens and the Raven expedition or the fact that at least somebody in the Federation knew about the Borg thanks to stories told by El-Aurian survivors from the Lakul.
Nerds. We're the worst.
Never mind the fact that the Borg likely received their drones' message before Q decides to be a complete dick to Picard and the Enterprise-D crew and throws them into the path of a cube. The Collective was already coming for us. Q just sped up the process and made official first contact happen a lot sooner than it otherwise would have.
And that doesn't take into account the Hansens and the Raven expedition or the fact that at least somebody in the Federation knew about the Borg thanks to stories told by El-Aurian survivors from the Lakul.
Nerds. We're the worst.
I have studied the map in Lorca's ready room, which has been made more clear in the latest batch of pictures. I have compared this map to its source material, the "Star Trek: Star Charts". My analysis is this - in the 2250s, the Klingon territory was larger than it would be in the late 24th century. In the years after 2250s, the Romulans began expanding into Klingon space, capturing systems like Tranome Sar.
In Deep Space Nine it's mentioned that sectors that used to be under Klingon control, like Archanis, were seceded to the Federation at some point. I can imagine sectors along the Romulan-Klingon border, going back and forth between the two often.
Ha, I've seen that theory several times too. Naturally of course, people like Christopher point out the obvious reconciliation you mention.
Although when it came out, I jumped at the chance to buy it, I don't pay much attention to the Star Trek: Star Charts, since although it has some cool art, the shape of alien empires were just made up by the author - names of some star systems are just blatantly names of Klingon/Romulan ship classes and stuff, since we don't know enough about the Romulan and Klingon languages to make new words - and presumably the publisher felt uncomfortable coming up with vague alien names like 'Hrakkour IV' to populate the empires with. It's not canonical, so I'm not sure they should base their in-series maps on it. I would say that Star Trek geography is not well defined. There is differing opinion even on how big known space is, with some people preferring a very conservative size for the Federation and surrounding empires like the Romulan Star Empire, Klingon Empire and Cardassian Union, and some preferring larger.
Maps that show Star Trek empires almost to be like countries I think also don't reflect how space really is, as they give the impression that every star in the colored border is property of the respective empire - in reality, it's probably more like they have only established outposts on 1 in 40,000 planets in that volume. I prefer maps that show space empires as a series of dots representing systems, as it just gives the impression of sparse settlement a little better.
In Enterprise, they gave the estimated figure of inhabited worlds at 1 in 43,000 planets, which would mean a few million civilizations in the Milky Way, but it would take a long time to discover them - if the galaxy has 400,000,000,000 stars, and the Federation visited a new one daily, it would take over a billion years to visit them all. The Federation has probably surveyed a couple of percent of the galaxy, and even most of that will be just unmanned probes.
One of the biggest points of contention about Star Trek distances is that most of Star Trek (especially DS9), would seem to indicate that the Federation is concentrated in the local 250 light years around Earth, but a couple of things refer to much bigger distances that don't fit the speeds of warp drive very well - the anomalous quote from Picard about the Federation being spread over 8,000 light years, and the Enterprises visiting Rigel, Deneb, etc - all distant stars. I remember someone came up with a solution for this, which was that perhaps the Federation has multiple cores and is diffuse, so that local space looks more or less like the Star Charts, but there are some really distant members that it takes a couple of years at warp to visit. The other solution is that the Deneb, Rigel, Antares, etc, mentioned in Star Trek, are all different from their real world ones - nicknames for other stars called Beta Rigel, etc - this is the position of the Star Charts and Pocket Books novels.
All of Star Trek takes place within a tiny amount of the galaxy, mainly within that dot - if we accept DS9 distances especially, or the distances used by the Star Charts, then all the major empires fit within that 1,000 light year dot - all of that known space map at the top fits in there - Voyager's journey from the Delta Quadrant being the most distant Federation vessel, but skipping over most of the millions of stars it passed.
Maps that show Star Trek empires almost to be like countries I think also don't reflect how space really is, as they give the impression that every star in the colored border is property of the respective empire - in reality, it's probably more like they have only established outposts on 1 in 40,000 planets in that volume. I prefer maps that show space empires as a series of dots representing systems, as it just gives the impression of sparse settlement a little better.
In Enterprise, they gave the estimated figure of inhabited worlds at 1 in 43,000 planets, which would mean a few million civilizations in the Milky Way, but it would take a long time to discover them - if the galaxy has 400,000,000,000 stars, and the Federation visited a new one daily, it would take over a billion years to visit them all. The Federation has probably surveyed a couple of percent of the galaxy, and even most of that will be just unmanned probes.
One of the biggest points of contention about Star Trek distances is that most of Star Trek (especially DS9), would seem to indicate that the Federation is concentrated in the local 250 light years around Earth, but a couple of things refer to much bigger distances that don't fit the speeds of warp drive very well - the anomalous quote from Picard about the Federation being spread over 8,000 light years, and the Enterprises visiting Rigel, Deneb, etc - all distant stars. I remember someone came up with a solution for this, which was that perhaps the Federation has multiple cores and is diffuse, so that local space looks more or less like the Star Charts, but there are some really distant members that it takes a couple of years at warp to visit. The other solution is that the Deneb, Rigel, Antares, etc, mentioned in Star Trek, are all different from their real world ones - nicknames for other stars called Beta Rigel, etc - this is the position of the Star Charts and Pocket Books novels.
All of Star Trek takes place within a tiny amount of the galaxy, mainly within that dot - if we accept DS9 distances especially, or the distances used by the Star Charts, then all the major empires fit within that 1,000 light year dot - all of that known space map at the top fits in there - Voyager's journey from the Delta Quadrant being the most distant Federation vessel, but skipping over most of the millions of stars it passed.
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Well, here is what Akiva Goldsman said:
“We are the original timeline with the TV shows and movies that fit into that,” Goldsman said during a press conference at New York Comic Con. “We are wildly aware of everything that appears to be a deviation from canon and we will close out all of those issues before they arrive at the 10-year period and hit The Original Series.”
It's painfully evident already that they are playing a game, and sometimes the payoff for a specific move is more or less instantaneous. Events and statements create deliberate controversy that then gets resolved. Sometimes this takes a couple of episodes, such as giving Ripper his due. Sometimes it takes longer, although thirteen episodes is probably a milestone as the writers couldn't have been totally sure of getting more.
Why should this surprise us? That's how serialized television is written. DSC is Trek's first attempt at such, although tentative steps were taken with the final season of ENT already.
The fun part comes from the rather unique ability of DSC to go outside its own borders and jump to the wider world of Star Trek the franchise. Preplanned continuity within a series? Pffffth, these writers can do preplanned continuity across half a dozen Trek formats. Why wouldn't they? It doesn't really cost them anything extra (what with continuity coming for free by clicking on Memory Alpha nowadays).
Timo Saloniemi
Why should this surprise us? That's how serialized television is written. DSC is Trek's first attempt at such, although tentative steps were taken with the final season of ENT already.
The fun part comes from the rather unique ability of DSC to go outside its own borders and jump to the wider world of Star Trek the franchise. Preplanned continuity within a series? Pffffth, these writers can do preplanned continuity across half a dozen Trek formats. Why wouldn't they? It doesn't really cost them anything extra (what with continuity coming for free by clicking on Memory Alpha nowadays).
Timo Saloniemi
Is that supposed to happen by the end of the (initially 13, now) 15 episodes or will that be postponed for season 2 now?
They've got 10 years so what's the rush?
Season 10 is the one that will seamlessly lead into Where No Man Has Gone Before.
Well no, because there is still 10 years to go, it will stretch across the seasons.
Another example, one of the designers said that the computer screens will slowly start becoming more colourful, and less blue over the years.
10 years? It will take them at least 100 years if their plan is for DSC’s aesthetics to gradually blend in with TOS’. 100 years of moderate backwards development that is.
It can only be something sudden like a temporal incursion to be remotely plausible. And even then...
It will never be 1:1 with TOS that is impossible, it isn't the 1960s.
But it could get to something similar, while retaining 21st century production values.
Then they won’t really be addressing the canon violations with the Original timeline will they?
They can address the story issues.
I find it very unlikely they'll have the TOS Connie look 1:1 as it did in TOS.
The uniforms perhaps could look very close.
A more detailed Constitution-class starship that still has basically the same designs and shapes as the original version would stand out and hit the intended nostalgia factor. That and it would imply that this class of ship are different and powerful for some reason even if they aren't all that big.
The DIS tie-in novel describes Pike, Spock, and the Enterprise as being more or less the same as we saw them in The Cage. Something about the Constitutions being special duty ships (special forces, but of the exploration type perhaps), with their own uniforms. The Ship looks weird to other Federation races due to the humans changing designs often for no real reason. And the ship's phasers are very powerful compared to other ships in the fleet.
And given Burnham's talk about the fast track to captain, the Constitutions are something special. Being as they were in shape, but with detailing like in ENT or DS9 or just the model detailing of TMP would likely be enough to sell that ship as the best ship in the fleet, just because ship looks that different from the other ships.
USS Discovery might be the most advanced ship at present, and have a clear strategic advantage with her Spore Drive, but that does not make her the most powerful ship. We know not about how good her weapons are, nor her regular warp drives, shields and the like. Not in comparison to USS Enterprise at least. That Discovery wasn't on Burnham's fast track thoughts seems to suggest that the Constitutions are truly something to behold even for members of Starfleet.
The DIS tie-in novel describes Pike, Spock, and the Enterprise as being more or less the same as we saw them in The Cage. Something about the Constitutions being special duty ships (special forces, but of the exploration type perhaps), with their own uniforms. The Ship looks weird to other Federation races due to the humans changing designs often for no real reason. And the ship's phasers are very powerful compared to other ships in the fleet.
And given Burnham's talk about the fast track to captain, the Constitutions are something special. Being as they were in shape, but with detailing like in ENT or DS9 or just the model detailing of TMP would likely be enough to sell that ship as the best ship in the fleet, just because ship looks that different from the other ships.
USS Discovery might be the most advanced ship at present, and have a clear strategic advantage with her Spore Drive, but that does not make her the most powerful ship. We know not about how good her weapons are, nor her regular warp drives, shields and the like. Not in comparison to USS Enterprise at least. That Discovery wasn't on Burnham's fast track thoughts seems to suggest that the Constitutions are truly something to behold even for members of Starfleet.
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