Spoilers Supergirl - Season 3

[dahj]

So I think there might be some homophobia in the character too.

You're right, but not some, her dad is flat out homophobic.

For one thing, he's under the impression she had a choice about it, and his explanation sounds like a lie he's been telling himself to rationalize and excuse his behaviour... he's not a dick for being homophobic, she's the guilty one complicating the perfect life he tried to give her.
This is sadly how most homophobes act, few actually admit their prejudice to themselves and to others, it's always the others fault...

 

[dahj]

P.S.
Loved the Britney Spears blasting, Bugs Bunny referencing Kara

 

[Christopher]

Overall, I think your analysis is very insightful. But I think there is more to it. The way the dad stormed out of the bridal shower when he saw Maggie and Alex kiss, seemed like a very homophobic reaction. So I think there might be some homophobia in the character too.

Yeah, he was raised with that set of values and assumptions and it shapes his reactions, clearly. But my point is that it's not just that, that there are multiple layers of nuance going on there. He still loves his daughter, and he was willing to make an effort. Just coming to the shower and trying to be a good guest, rather than denouncing the whole thing, shows that he was at least willing to try accepting who Maggie was. But he just couldn't reconcile his desire for his daughter to be happy and accepted and safe with his deep-rooted belief that being gay means being an outsider or a second-class citizen. Certainly he has some wrong ideas that keep him from accepting who she is, and he's handled it badly and selfishly, but it's something more complex and interesting than just one-note stock bigotry.

That's a mark of good character writing -- that you can disagree entirely with a character's point of view but still understand that there's something relatable and sympathetic underlying it. His actions aren't motivated by hate, but by love filtered through some very wrong and disruptive assumptions.

Plus, the character should know that there is much less LGBT discrimination now compared to when he was younger. So surely, his concerns would have less merit now.

In places like National City, yes. But he comes from a more rural part of the country where those older attitudes still hold sway. So that shapes how he sees things. He hasn't had enough experience with the world Maggie lives in now to believe she can be truly accepted or safe in it.

 

[O_Kav]

I can't be sure if the writers were taking into consideration how homophobia works specifically inside Latino households or if that was a general statement about homophobic parents. However, being a Latino myself, I think the portrayal of Maggie's father is spot-on. Of course we're not a monolithic people and Latinos living in the U.S are quite different from the ones still living in Latin America. I believe Conservatism works in similar ways on Latino Families everywhere, though.

At this point I think I lost count on how many times I saw LGBT acquaintances of mine having a hard time with their families because of that weird logic her father used. A "logic" that dictates a backwards sense of pride coming first than the comfort of the people you love. If the world hates your son or daughter for no good reason, you better join the hate-wagon otherwise that's going to become your personal calvário. Yup. That's Homophobic Latino Parents 101.

We still haven't seen her mother, isn't it ? Maybe she's less pig headed than her father. So far Maggie as a character was kinda meh to me, this episode changed it. She feels more relatable now.

I'm loving the change of tone for the Series this season. Even Kara's initial monologue is better. I hope they keep it up.

 

[Christopher]

We still haven't seen her mother, isn't it ? Maybe she's less pig headed than her father.

I got the opposite impression. At least her father came to the shower. Her mother was unwilling to come.

Even Kara's initial monologue is better.

The narration, maybe, but I'm really disappointed that they dropped the original theme music, which I quite liked. The new music seems much blander, at least as a first impression.

 

[TREK_GOD_1]

Maggie's father's attitude toward his daughter makes absolutely no sense. As someone who himself experienced discrimination at a young age, he should be more tolerant of someone's ethnicity, religion, or in this case Maggie's sexual orientation!

Tolerant does not mean the experiences and weight of history on a minority's daily life and soul are the same, which was the offensive part of that shoddy script. As noted yesterday, being the victim of racism and the neverending fight to overcome it is not analogous with the problems of others. There is no balance of experience or perception, so her father's experiences inform his position which has no equal yesterday or today. Again, racial hatred is on a level of historical/global/personal destruction in a terrible--no, terrifying category all by itself, and cannot be--in the series' immature, ham-fisted fashion--bonded to or balanced with to any other form of discrimination--that is, if one truly knows what being the victim of racism is.

 

[Reverend]

I don't think the show was trying to claim Maggie's father is justified in his reasoning, just presenting it as a reason some people think the way they do. Understanding prejudice of any sort is vital in overcoming it.

I'm British so I have bugger all personal experience with persons specifically of the Central America Latino persuasion and thus I may miss some nuances, but it did feel like an honest portrayal of a person with a old fashioned conservative religious prejudice, compounded by a personal experience of persecution. Now you'd think the latter should lend itself to a greater sympathy, but in reality, it just as often works the other way.

 

[Photoman15]

I got the opposite impression. At least her father came to the shower. Her mother was unwilling to come.



The narration, maybe, but I'm really disappointed that they dropped the original theme music, which I quite liked. The new music seems much blander, at least as a first impression.

I thought that's where they were going. The father was going to say it was the mother who sent her away but he had the task of doing it. Guess not...

 

[Jayson1]

I think the only issue I had with how the dad's homophobia was the reason felt kind like they were trying to excuse it instead of going after what I think drives most homophobia and that is religion and or people who are in denial about their own sexual feelings.

Me I thought the episode was kind of week. It drives me crazy to not even get to see the Martain Manhunter in his natural look even on his own planet. Supergirl was blasting away with the alien septhor and killing which to me is something I don't mind in some superhero's but to me it's always wrong when it comes to Superman or Supergirl. Even if they do kill it has to feel more important than a random action scene and then she doesn't show any remorse.

Also part of me wonder's if they are wasting time on Maggie now that we know the character will be leaving the show. I was disapointed she wasn't coming back as a regular but now it feels like they are setting something up that we all know will end in failure. I did like the shapeshifting car and while Britney Spears was okay you think you would want a song from the 50's to go with it. At least some kind of space based song like Space Oddity or Rocket Man or Life on Mars.

Jason

 

[CorporalCaptain]

I really enjoyed this week's episode.

 

[Christopher]

I think the only issue I had with how the dad's homophobia was the reason felt kind like they were trying to excuse it instead of going after what I think drives most homophobia and that is religion and or people who are in denial about their own sexual feelings.

I don't think there was any intention to imply that Maggie's father's reasons are the same as anyone else's. And they're not excusing homophobia, just adding a layer to his personal motivation by establishing that it's based more on his fear of everyone else's homophobia hurting his daughter.

That's the thing about prejudice -- it manifests in many different ways. It can't be reduced to a single way of thinking held identically by everyone. And some of its manifestations are more insidious than others. Oscar didn't hate his daughter, but he couldn't stop seeing her sexual identity as something that doomed her to being an outsider. He couldn't see it as something normal or positive, and that made him unable to believe that she was happy and safe the way she was. I think encouraging audiences to recognize the complexity of human relationships and the multiple ways that our prejudices can be hurtful even without our realizing it is much better than reducing it to a single, simplistic portrayal of homophobia as active hatred. Obviously that kind of hate exists and is very dangerous, but it's not the only kind we need to be aware of. The subtler forms of prejudice can be just as dangerous because we tend not to recognize them.

It drives me crazy to not even get to see the Martain Manhunter in his natural look even on his own planet.

There was some of it, as much as they could afford. It was puzzling that he chose to wear his human form for his second visit to M'yrnn's cell, though. They didn't bother to come up with a story justification for it.

(By the way, I'm amused that J'onn's father is named M'yrnn, because my father was named Myron.)

Also part of me wonder's if they are wasting time on Maggie now that we know the character will be leaving the show. I was disapointed she wasn't coming back as a regular but now it feels like they are setting something up that we all know will end in failure.

Not necessarily. I gather the producers want to write her out in a way that allows for her to come back whenever Lima is willing and able, so it's premature to assume we're heading for a breakup or a death. It could be that they get married but Maggie gets a too-good-to-pass-up opportunity to join the FBI or President Marsdin's Secret Service detail or something. Or maybe she gets abducted by aliens and Alex swears to find her one day, although we've already been through something similar with Jeremiah.

 

[CorporalCaptain]

It was puzzling that he chose to wear his human form for his second visit to M'yrnn's cell, though. They didn't bother to come up with a story justification for it.

I kept expecting J'onn to say that this was the form he used on Earth, as part of his story to his father. That would have been ample enough of a fig leaf for me, for the use of that form.

 

[Guy Gardener]

Why is President Marsden, an alien, building a wall to keep the Mexicans out?

And from how Maggie's dad reacted, is she doing more than blustering like this world's POTUS is doing?

 

[Jayson1]

I don't think there was any intention to imply that Maggie's father's reasons are the same as anyone else's. And they're not excusing homophobia, just adding a layer to his personal motivation by establishing that it's based more on his fear of everyone else's homophobia hurting his daughter.

That's the thing about prejudice -- it manifests in many different ways. It can't be reduced to a single way of thinking held identically by everyone. And some of its manifestations are more insidious than others. Oscar didn't hate his daughter, but he couldn't stop seeing her sexual identity as something that doomed her to being an outsider. He couldn't see it as something normal or positive, and that made him unable to believe that she was happy and safe the way she was. I think encouraging audiences to recognize the complexity of human relationships and the multiple ways that our prejudices can be hurtful even without our realizing it is much better than reducing it to a single, simplistic portrayal of homophobia as active hatred. Obviously that kind of hate exists and is very dangerous, but it's not the only kind we need to be aware of. The subtler forms of prejudice can be just as dangerous because we tend not to recognize them.




To me though this felt like the safe way to go more than something I feel is the most common form of homophobia. Either they want to bring him back so they don't want him to come off to much like a monster or they are afraid to put out the idea that people who face racism can also have racism just as equal as what alt right types have. I think the implication is that if her dad never faced racism he would be okay with her being gay but to me most homophobia usually comes from the same place no matter who has it.

This feels more like something coming from a concerned father than someone who doesn't want to acknowledge her existence or thinks being gay is just a choice. If that was how he really felt i'm not sure if disowning her really jells well with that idea. It feels more like something you would constantly be getting into arguments over but still staying in touch. I think Glee did this much better years ago when Santana come out as a Lesbian and her Grandmother disowned her. To me that felt real.

I still want to see more from the mom and the aunt(I think it was a aunt) who raised her. To me the fact that she didn't show up makes me hope that if they do bring this issue back they go with something more complex. Also something that they aren't afraid of pissing people off. Ryan Murphy is possibly the best tv showrunner on tv right now, with Whedon off doing movies, and one thing you know for sure is when people watch his stuff someone is going to be getting offended or angry. I like that kind of risk taking. "Supergirl" is kind of okay in that regard but then Trump and the alt right are very easy targets to a point where it doesn't feel risky to insult them anymore. In fact it has gone form serious commentary to jokes at this point in most cases.

Jason

 

[theenglish]

I think his logic was a rationalization of his own bias. He is probably Catholic, grew up in a conservative environment, but like many who have prejudices he is attempting to justify them. I think Maggie sees through that. It was a very interesting dynamic with layers that I was not expecting from this show.

 

[theenglish]

Why is President Marsden, an alien, building a wall to keep the Mexicans out?

And from how Maggie's dad reacted, is she doing more than blustering like this world's POTUS is doing?

He didn't mention the President specifically. He was just talking about people's attitudes.

 

[Guy Gardener]

I endured for my children so that you would never have to face that kind of hatred. So that you would belong.

I am accepted for who I am. The world is different now.

[laughs sarcastically] They're building a wall to keep us out because in their minds, we are nothing but rapists and murderers. The only thing they hate more than a Mexicano is a homosexual. The world is not different, my dear.

What I'm thinking happened IRL is that the author, of that line, who could have been anyone, during a rewrite, forgot that Donald Trump wasn't the President on this Earth. Figuring out how a Donald Trump racist soundbite, and a Donald Trump racist construction deal came into a play where he is just a failing Businessman at best, is a test of our imagination.

 

[Christopher]

To me though this felt like the safe way to go more than something I feel is the most common form of homophobia.

It's not about "safe," because telling a story is not exclusively about polemic. It's about character. It's about emotions and relationships. Making a moral point can certainly be part of it, but it's bad writing if your characters are nothing except puppets for a statement about morality. It's fine if you want to tell a story with a message, but I always keep in mind something Gene Roddenberry was known to say (in the original series era, when he still had sensible priorities): if you want the audience to stick around and hear the message, you have to entertain them first. And that means creating multidimensional characters with interestingly complex relationships. It doesn't mean reducing everyone to a stereotype of whatever behavior you want to preach about.

The story about Maggie and Oscar is a story about a relationship between a father and a daughter. There is no way that can't be extremely complex and multilayered. Even with homophobia as a factor, it wouldn't be the only factor, and it would be -- again -- bad writing to ignore that human reality just for the sake of moralizing. Fortunately, what we got was good writing, so it was complex.

Besides, the fact that the kind of homophobia you're talking about is more common means people already know about it. You're asking for the obvious, the predictable. Instead, they gave us something more unexpected, more layered, and therefore a lot more interesting.

This feels more like something coming from a concerned father than someone who doesn't want to acknowledge her existence or thinks being gay is just a choice.

It's both. That's just it. Human beings feel more than one thing at a time. You can't reduce an entire person to a single thought or motivation. Oscar feels both love for his daughter and an inability to accept or understand her lifestyle, and it's the tension between those things that creates the conflict.

If that was how he really felt i'm not sure if disowning her really jells well with that idea. It feels more like something you would constantly be getting into arguments over but still staying in touch.

Maybe that's what will happen going forward, but keep in mind that he's had a couple of decades to think about what led him to reject her. Maybe it took him that long to understand why he was so angry. Hate is often the flipside of love. Intense love can lead to intense pain, so intense you can't bear to face it so you have to cut yourself off from the person who causes it.

 

[David cgc]

Why is President Marsden, an alien, building a wall to keep the Mexicans out?

And from how Maggie's dad reacted, is she doing more than blustering like this world's POTUS is doing?

In the season opener, Cat Grant’s cameo implied that Donald Trump, or his non-union fictional equivalent, was the Speaker of the House. It’s not as common for the opposite party to gain control of Congress in a Presidential election year as it is during a midterm (was last season an election year? A lot of shows have their imaginary presidential election cycle offset from the real one), but it’s not impossible, and the Speaker could be doing the same sort of hostage-taking and bluster over immigration and nationalism that we saw a few years ago with repeated debt-ceiling showdowns and government shutdowns.

Plus, all that rhetoric Oscar quoted was from the election. It’s terrifying enough that kind of talk won a major-party nomination even if the candidate only came in second in the actual election (or, who knows, came in first but lost because of some hare-brained technicality).

 

[Christopher]

Plus, all that rhetoric Oscar quoted was from the election.

He said "They're building a wall" as though it were a current program, not a failed campaign promise. So I'm afraid that doesn't quite fly.