Poll If they admitted it wasn't PRIME?
- Thread starter F. King Daniel
- Start date
The problem with the "admit it's not Prime" is it's born from the fact this is apparently NOT what fanboys wanted when they screamed, "KELVINVERSE SUCKS! BRING BACK PRIME!"
Fans, you know they love it by the amount of hate they throw at something.
Fans, you know they love it by the amount of hate they throw at something.
I agree.
The OP completely begs the question as to whether the show is set in the Prime Universe.
It is. Sorry if it upsets folks, but it is. Have they done an arguably poor job on some things, such as Klingon ship design? Sure.
But in a longstanding IP such as this, there are going to be differences in tone and presentation. For an example from another very longstanding IP, here's a clip that DC put out to celebrate 70 years of Superman.
Every version there is Superman, but for some die-hard fans out there, some of those versions to them aren't "really Superman", LOL. In the Fleischer version at the start, we had a Superman battling the Ku Klux Klan, punching Nazis, and also fiercely nationalistic -- the final Fleischer Superman cartoon literally ended with Superman giving the House Committee on Un-American Activities a list of "dangerous foreign spies", and he salutes the American flag as he flies off.
By the time we get to a more current Superman, they've largely dropped "and the American way" out of the blurb describing what he fights for, and he in some cases literally describes himself as "a citizen of the world".
Both versions are Superman, they are just written for different audiences at different times. While progressives might wince at a Superman who acts like a McCarthy supporter and conservatives might rage at a globalist version, the fact remains that both are Superman.
So if Discovery isn't some peoples preferred version of Trek, I can completely understand and sympathize. But just like others of us had to live with versions we didn't care for, we can all at least be happy that the overall franchise is being kept alive. The version of Trek that you dislike today might mean that years from now you'll get to enjoy a version that you love.
I prefer the idea of a alternate universe. I like that it gives you the freedom of a reboot but also the ability to also use old stuff as well and maybe even have crossovers to the prime universe from time to time. Plus it makes me wonder what is going on in the prime universe. Does the prime universe also have a Discovery and Lorca and so forth. Only thing is I want more big changes to happen beyond just the look of the show. I want unexpected deaths or major events to happen that can't happen in the prime universe if you doing a prequel in that setting.
Jason
Jason
I won't answer the question because so far, I have seen no compelling reason why it is not in the Prime Universe.
Because it's not OUR Trek apparently.
I'd imagine that most people who wanted the Prime Universe back wanted something that actually resembles the Prime Universe. Just my guess.
Whose?
Not sure why people keep obsessing about this. Who cares if this is exactly the "Prime Universe," the Prime Universe (more or less), or simply the Prime Universe, redecorated and with a new paint job?
It's not an either/or, black-or-white, yes-or-no thing. Let alone a matter of life or death.
The way I see it, it's basically the Prime Universe, with a face lift.
Good enough for me.
It's not an either/or, black-or-white, yes-or-no thing. Let alone a matter of life or death.
The way I see it, it's basically the Prime Universe, with a face lift.
Good enough for me.
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I suppose that depends on your definition of the word "prime."
1. It means that DSC should look and feel exactly like TOS's "The Cage."
2. It means that DSC simply doesn't take place in the Kelvin timeline.
3. It means that even though DSC is a complete and total visual reimagining of Star Trek, somehow it's still a legitimate prequel to a show that completely and totally looks and feels nothing like it.
its a simple consequence of time and imagination.
that show was shot a very long time ago. times change. a show is more than a look or a feel. no one would expect that this would look just like it did then. the show does have to approach a realistic set of peoples expectations.
Not sure why people keep obsessing about this. Who cares if this is exactly the "Prime Universe," the Prime Universe (more or less), or simply the Prime Universe, redecorated and with a new paint job?
It's not an either/or, black-or-white, yes-or-no thing. Let alone a matter of life or death.
The way I see it, it's basically the Prime Universe, with a face lift.
Good enough for me.
I think it only matters in how you will let the events of this show influence how you think about the other shows. If you don't think it's prime then you will never watch "TOS" and think that Spock has some sister he has never talked about and maybe should be contacted after Sarek's heat attack or the time we found out about Sybok. Basically they won't even bother with a head-canon excuse, since they don't except the existence of the character. It will also get kind of muddy with trek novels as well. Will people buy into a TOS novel that makes references or even uses "Discovery" characters. I think that will be interesting to see.
Jason
The visual stuff is just the window dressing: costumes and sets and props. From where I'm sitting, visual continuity is not the same as, say, plot continuity. It's a TV show, not a historical documentary.
And I would absolutely cite DISCOVERY in a TOS novel if the opportunity arose, just like I've cited Sybok and Archer in TOS books, even though they were never mentioned on TOS.
The "Prime Universe" is not set in stone. It's whatever the shows and movies say it is now.
And I would absolutely cite DISCOVERY in a TOS novel if the opportunity arose, just like I've cited Sybok and Archer in TOS books, even though they were never mentioned on TOS.
The "Prime Universe" is not set in stone. It's whatever the shows and movies say it is now.
I wonder though if fans would see the DISCOVERY references and just go with the idea that their is prime universe version of the show, only it looks like it was filmed in 60's as their own head-canon way of dealing with the references. I think in away that is how for many years people who were fans of Berman era Trek looked at "TOS" and even season 1 of TNG. They happened but maybe in way that wasn't so silly looking compared to what the current way of Trek was doing. People might except aspects of the show but still see it as it's own thing that still doesn't really feel apart of the rest of Trek. Granted in time I think that is what new fans will do with the Berman era of Trek. It will be the shows that no longer fit and people will head-canon away anything about them they don't like. Do you think this new look that basically started with the Kelvin Universe will someday become the man look at how people look at the Trek universe?
Jason
Some people just don't agree on that. I really can't. I'm not fanatical about it, certain amount of updating is understandable. But really, things should remain same enough that they're at least recognisable. The D7 thing is just too far for me. I'm very visual person and these things matter to me. YMMV.
Oh, I suspect many fans approach TAS that way. Accepting the parts they like as "canon" while quietly ignoring the fifty-foot Vulcans and all . . ..
Individuals can think what they like. But DISCOVERY exists and is part of the continuity now, just like Sybok and Archer and Zefram Cochrane being a scruffy old rascal. Times change and so does the "Prime Universe" . . .
Individuals can think what they like. But DISCOVERY exists and is part of the continuity now, just like Sybok and Archer and Zefram Cochrane being a scruffy old rascal. Times change and so does the "Prime Universe" . . .
But what happens if the show ends up being a alternate universe or even the mirror universe?. I can see a alternate but not sure I see how it would fit as a mirror universe show. I also wonder how Kelvin Universe stuff has been processed by the fans when it comes to the prime universe. For example is the U.S,S Kelvin now seen as a prime universe ship as well along with Captain Robau? I know I did read some comics before the first movie came out were the Enterprise played a role in trying to stop Nero from going back in the past. It seemed to fit well and the only curious thing is that Data was in the comic and i'm not sure how because he died in "Nemissis" and I always asumed Nero and then Spock going after him took place several years after the last TNG movie.
Jason
It can't be the mirror universe. Why do people keep bringing this up?
They figured out how to unlock him in B4's head.
Those aren't the only options. The best would be judging what the new series contributes to the lore and ideas already implemented by Star Trek. A new look and a new perspective on storytelling won't change that.
I assume we'll just roll with the punches and adapt, the same way we do when, say, a comic book continuity gets revamped or retconned, or when there are three competing versions of Godzilla or the Mummy on the screen.
It basically comes down to how heavily invested you are in the illusion that STAR TREK is a single, seamless entity as opposed to the reality that it's actually seven different TV series (and thirteen movies) made by lots of different people over the course of fifty-plus years.
And how willing you are to suspend your disbelief when it comes to allowing for a little artistic license with the sets and costumes and such.
It basically comes down to how heavily invested you are in the illusion that STAR TREK is a single, seamless entity as opposed to the reality that it's actually seven different TV series (and thirteen movies) made by lots of different people over the course of fifty-plus years.
And how willing you are to suspend your disbelief when it comes to allowing for a little artistic license with the sets and costumes and such.
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