Yes, it is.
Spoilers Star Trek: Discovery 1x05 - "Choose Your Pain"
- Thread starter Commander Richard
- Start date
Yes, it is.
This. Star Trek is many things to many people. Hence why there is so much fan fiction set during the dominion war.
But seriously what Lorca did is small potatoes to say Captain Janeway making an alliance with the borg so she could get 140 people home within 75 years. We saw the morality of that decisions voiced by chakotay and ignored by Janeway. And in hope and fear see saw what an impact that had on other delta quadrant civilisations. Or that time she almost allowed a starfleet officer to be killed by an antimatter dolphin to get information. Then there was that time sisko went around poisoning maquis planets and that other time he was an accessory to the assassination of a foreign dignitary.
But that's not Lorca. He *is* a cold, calculating asshole. And I do understand fully your problem with it vis a vis Trek. But like I said, at THIS point, I'm willing to wait to see where his character arc goes.
Asshole =! war criminal
Mudd = Asshole
Asshole =! deserving of torture and death
You know who's a cold, calculating asshole? Captain Jellico.
You know who's one of my favourite Star Trek Captains? Captain Jellico.
Because he's an asshole Captain done right.
Lorca is just a war criminal.
Lorca didn't have to leave him behind. He also didn't need to inform him of his plan.
You know if it was a matter of trust the whole three of them had equal reason not to rely on each other. Mudd being an informer, Tyler a possible spy and Lorca having just admitted to not being a.. team player. Tyler didn't seem to mind hooking up with a Captain who killed his crew. I wouldn't trust someone like that as far as I could throw them.
Well said!
The accusations against posters who are interested in the characters are particularly detrimental to the otherwise civil discussions that are taking place. It's as if the accusers are trying to shut down discussion about their criticisms. Ironic.
How exactly is he a war criminal?
Have you even seen that film? WTF?
People have often complained about how in some Star Trek episodes the morals are depicted in heavy handed and preachy fashion. Apparently that is needed, as some people seem to completely misread the episode/film if that is not done. 'Chain of Command' and now this.
Kirk tried to save Kruge a few seconds earlier, even though Kruge had killed his son. The thing you mention only happens when instead of accepting the help Kruge still tries to kill Kirk. Kirk is understandably fed up, but killing Kruge at that point is pure self defence, he did absolutely everything he could to resolve the thing without killing Kruge.
Have you been getting the advance scripts for The Orville?!
Jellico wasn't an arsehole, he just expected people to do their jobs, follow orders and wear a uniform instead of their pyjamas on the bridge. I mean the fact his ready room was plastered with his son's drawings says a lot about what he would be like off duty.
By, uh, not following the rules of engagement? By, uh, imprisoning civilians in enemy torture cells (he shut down the door in front of Mudd)? By, uh, killing HIS OWN SUBORDINATES? The ones who's life's he's sworn to protect?
Ok, so Lorca should inform Mudd the collaborator of their plan (in general). Okaaaay. That doesn't work either. "Don't tell your masters that we're escaping!" Riiiight.
Given that Mudd is a collaborator, Lorca did the right thing by not telling him of the plan and not bringing him along.
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One, you don't yet know (as I wrote before) exactly WHAT happened to that ship and to him. So you're making an assumption on that storyline. Two, Mudd was ALREADY in a prison (one of his own making to an extent)... and while I agree that he should have left the door ajar, I doubt that would have helped Mudd in any real way.
I think you're overreacting with the "war criminal" stuff, to be honest. He's obviously a WARTIME captain, just like Churchill was a wartime PM and did some incredibly heinous things on the side.
And I'm sure they're laughing all the way to the bank thanks to the haters who follow it religiously!
What better scenario for them? They get the people who love it and those who hate it watching every week, hanging on to every detail!
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Again: Mudd wasn't a traitor. He only collaborated with his captors in so far to evade torture and death. He had a listening device. In a cell that most likely was bugged anyway. That's pretty understandable and forgivable for a fucking civilian.
^ Harry willingly chose his fellow prisoners for torture and eventual death. That's betrayal (of the other prisoners) and collaboration (with the torturers).
Dear Lord...Please tell me you're kidding about that...
Auto-destruct was used as a plot device on every single Trek series other than ENT. IIRC, in most of those cases no one was running for the escape pods either.
The only weird thing that Lorca did, by the standards of a Starfleet captain, is surviving his ship and crew. We don't know the reason for that yet, but there could be a perfectly "honorable" explanation.
No, it is not. He did that to not get tortured himself. That's pretty much what anybody would do after a time to survive. Real life examples are plenty. Nobody punishes POW's for questionable actions during their improsenment afterwards. That's just what people do. People really don't want to be tortured.
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