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"Choose Your Pain" Klingon ship (Visual spoilers?)

It's interesting how such elaborate, ornate, intricate designs have come to be considered "generic" through overuse.

Kor

I dunno, I think designs like this always were generic - the designs that matter most to me personally are ones that suggest purpose - whereas when I look at those, I just see a bored concept artist with no ideas making a generic shape, and then seeing how many ribs they can fit onto it - "take five isosceles triangles, drop them randomly on a table to make your spacecraft, then add a shit-ton of lines, ridges, ribs and surface details to them". The result:

CONCEPTART3.jpg


Would anyone recognize that silhouette as Klingon if it turned up randomly?

GcjqUN2.jpg


The original Enterprise, Romulan Bird of Prey and Klingon D7 on the other hand were designed to be instantly recognizable from their silhouette alone. Gene Coon and Gene Roddenbury were WW2 veterans - their directive was to make ships distinguishable from one another at a glance - like a WW2 airplane recognition chart.

i13gEw0.jpg


A ship like the connie suggests utility - it's pods have some reason behind them even if you don't know the exact reason, you can guess they are engines - the shuttle-bay seems to be in a logical place - the nacelles are offset from the hull for some reason, etc. The enemy ships have similar features to suggest commonality of technology.

The Klingon ship at the top of this post has no discernable bridge, engines, shuttle bay, weapons, or anything - it's silhouette is so generic it could be a Delta Quadrant alien-of-the-week that Janeway runs into.

For this reason, elaborate for it's own sake, has never been a good idea to me.

Only when it's elaborate for a reason for intricacy do I like it - like a Warhammer 40,000 ship is suggestive of a Gothic Cathedral - perfect for a galactic empire that can barely understand it's own technology anymore - and has regressed into a Catholic/Nazi totalitarian theocracy where people believe electricity is the will of god:

6rXzeVW.jpg


The Klingon ship above just looks like something from a modern Hollywood B-movie, like Skyline:

VrcUero.jpg


To me (a person who, as you all know, was fed up of the way Klingons were in DS9, and advocated for their change) - the crux is not their visual appearance, but their intangible culture - the thing that most needed re-imagining about the Klingons was not their ships, tricorders, disruptors, or any other material prop - it was their society, their character, and other intangible things like that, which had grown into a boring stereotype through lack of thought - the fact they all talked in a stupid raspy tone of voice, and were apparently universally incapable of going five steps without taking offense, was grating and obnoxious - the obsession with words like 'honor, bloodwine, kahless' in every sentence of dialogue was atrocious.

So, some people might say, "hey, USS Einstein, arn't you the one who has been saying for years on TrekBBS that the Klingons needed a huge reboot"? But I never had a problem with their beautiful starships - their canonical appearance - there was no need for their most common ship to suddenly look nothing like it has for 50 years (yes, the D7 has looked the same in appearances from 1969's "Day of the Dove" to 2009's "Star Trek" !!!) - the problem was purely in their writing.
 
Einstein you pretty much put my thoughts into words beautiful. That's the ticket, laddy.
 
No, we know what it does look like.

There are things you can change and things you can't, guess what this falls under?

No, we know what the D7 looks like now, that is it. Just like we know what the Cage era uniforms look like, DSC is wearing them. We know what Klingons look like, we have seen them in DSC. They changed it and guess what? They own it, they can change it.

sdcc17-dscgallery-sketches-13.jpg


"Islamic"?

It is the name of the art style



I think somebody meant "arabesque," which is the usual term used in the fields of arts/design for that kind of pattern, but they had a brain hiccup and couldn't think of the right word.

Kor

I have never heard it called that. In the design classes I took it was called "islamic filigree", which is what its been called for well over a thousand years. There may be a new "PC" push to called it Arabic style, but it has been called Islamic for a very long time.
 
I have never heard it called that. In the design classes I took it was called "islamic filigree", which is what its been called for well over a thousand years. There may be a new "PC" push to called it Arabic style, but it has been called Islamic for a very long time.

It's been called Arabesque a long time, too, and that's the word I was searching for before Kor nailed it down. Wikipedia's description of arabesque seems appropriate:
The arabesque is a form of artistic decoration consisting of "surface decorations based on rhythmic linear patterns of scrolling and interlacing foliage, tendrils" or plain lines,[1] often combined with other elements. Another definition is "Foliate ornament, used in the Islamic world, typically using leaves, derived from stylised half-palmettes, which were combined with spiralling stems".[2] It usually consists of a single design which can be 'tiled' or seamlessly repeated as many times as desired.[3] Within the very wide range of Eurasian decorative art that includes motifs matching this basic definition, the term "arabesque" is used consistently as a technical term by art historians to describe only elements of the decoration found in two phases: Islamic art from about the 9th century onwards, and European decorative art from the Renaissance onwards. Interlace and scroll decoration are terms used for most other types of similar patterns.

It was at one point called 'rebeske' in English, but that's been disused for centuries.
 
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Thanks mate - check it out, from 1969 to 2009, the D7's has remained a classic:

1969:
cXelCOw.jpg


1979:
CZR4XRl.jpg


2009:
HCxywEb.jpg


And John Eaves unused D4 class from ENT:

siKhpIH.jpg


....so, why ditch the design now, in the era it was best known?
I don't get it either unless the Klingons are going to develop a new version of the D7 between now and TOS which is unlikely to say the least.

I also don't buy the whole line about the term D7 being used for all Klingon vessels of a certain size.

Why not call the Vor'cha or the Negh'Var a D7 or even a different D* which doesn't happen, the D7 is the D7 just as the earlier D5 was the D5 during the 22nd century.

They could have reused that 2009 D7 in this show and it would look great, add some nice panning shots like we got of the Discovery and watch the positive reactions from the fanbase.

I would have been fine if they had used the D4 or something that could be recognised as a mid point between the D5 we saw and the D7 which is to come.

Such an obvious easy open goal for them to miss.
 
...
I have never heard it called that. In the design classes I took it was called "islamic filigree", which is what its been called for well over a thousand years. There may be a new "PC" push to called it Arabic style, but it has been called Islamic for a very long time.

Ornate plant-like patterns have been commonly called "arabesque" in English since about 1720. It's a borrowing of a French form that came from the Italian "arabesco."

There's absolutely nothing 21st-century PC about that. :rolleyes:

Kor
 
Ah cool, I did not know this. even My books called it islamic filigree.
Just kind of casually flipping around on the subject leads me to think there's an 'Islamic arabesque' style and simply 'Islamic style' might be the trending favorite.
 
Ornate plant-like patterns have been called "arabesque" in English since about 1720. The word came from the Italian "arabesco."

There's absolutely nothing 21st-century PC about that. :rolleyes:

Kor


Yep, I stand corrected. I am just saying in my classes, even our books that was not what it was called. So it is likely the design team, learned it as I did. Not because they did not know what it was called, but because they learned its other name.
 
Just kind of casually flipping around on the subject leads me to think there's an 'Islamic arabesque' style and simply 'Islamic style' might be the trending favorite.


I think you are correct. Terms fall in and out of favor.

Certainly true, it needs surface detail. TMP version would have been fine though.

I disagree, that would still look super out of place. It simply does not even remotely fit the art style they went with. Something closer to vor'cha would have worked though. That is the style that went with after all.
 
Yeah, its the beacon - and yeah, I am frankly not very happy with whats happened.

I've given this show a lot of benefit of the doubt, but really disagree with some of their production choices. Re-imagining a beloved alien race.

It's like making an Imperial Star Destroyer suddenly look like a Warhammer 40,000 Necron ship or something. And while I would like to assume otherwise, it really raises the question of whether the designers know enough about Star Trek's visual design history.

CONCEPTART3.jpg

This, for me, is the worst, as it's actually meant to be a normal Klingon warship of the 23rd century, but looks like a generic 'alien ship' from some less famous franchise.

The ship in the show, while having the same shape doesn’t seem to resemble that concept art texture wise.

It didn’t look that busy, detailed.
 
The ship in the show, while having the same shape doesn’t seem to resemble that concept art texture wise.
That particular piece of concept art looks like a very rough early design, like some preexisting patterns were cut out into those shapes and pasted together.

Kor
 
Yeah even the sarcophagus ship doesn’t match exactly, for example the ‘head’ is a lot bigger in the final episode then what is seen in the concept art.
 
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